Based on a discussion had in Twitch this morning, I've put out a suggestion post hoping to get it some traction with PGI... link is here, but the text is all below: http://mwomercs.com/forums/topic/194248-let-us-build-you-new-trial-mechs/ Here's hoping...put your feedback here
I respect your opinion but I totally disagree - the very core of battletech has always been about turning the awful stock mechs into your own design. Take that away and the game is nothing.
First of all, that is the first time I've ever noticed the BNC-3M(C), and it is ridiculous. They've never used a boat build before, and this just strikes as laziness on their design. As for your proposal, I do agree that they need to improve their trial mechs, especially on the Clan side. That said, I don't agree with your point that mechs should be built to the quirks, first of all because relying on quirks becomes a bit of a crutch, and more importantly, every time quirks change, they'll have to screw around changing their trial builds. As for Remarius' point, they've already dropped the stock IS Trial mechs and are using Champions. This doesn't mean that when we buy new mechs they will no longer start as stock, so I don't really understand your argument here.
Durandal is right on here. Not only has he identified a problem, he has offered to fix it. When I first started about 14 months ago I just about quit because I wasn't having fun getting my ass handed to me game after game in mechs that were terrible (single heat sinks, poor weapon loadouts, unexplained mechanics like gauss and missile bay doors) combined with my lack of skill and experience. The only thing that kept me going was that I played earlier battletech games (MechWarrior 1, etc) and knew that it could be fun. The occasional good game also helped. Once I found mechspecs, figured out a build strategy for my next mechs (sold or modified the ones I'd screwed up), and developed what little talent I have - the game became pretty addictive. What Durandal is suggesting is to reduce the slope of the learning curve by providing trial mechs that maximize the effectiveness of the new players while (gasp) actually helping them to learn some of the more esoteric aspects of MWO (I had been playing 9 months before I realized there was a missile bay door on the Centurians - since removed). This is a win-win because it makes the new players more effective in-game as well as helps them to enjoy the game and potentially keep playing it. At the beginning, because this is free to play, there is no investment from the player. I suspect there are lots of people who play a match or two, get slaughtered, and move onto the next game. Because there is no money required to start playing, they don't feel obligated to continue. Better trial mechs will in no way make the game easy for new players. Making it easier to feel like you contributed to the match and had a good time is necessary if we want to retain people who aren't already wedded to battletech. There are lots of ways to improve trial mechs but I think Durandal has hit on the one that is easiest to implement. What PGI ought to do is farm this out to interested parties who can do a monthly review of 1/12 of the trial mechs and update them as needed to improve them toward the current meta (or whatever interval makes sense). That way everything gets a yearly review and remains much more current, relevant, and playable.
I think Durandal has some GREAT points here. My simplified view is just to have builds with manageable heat and no more than two types of weapon systems... If you have LRMs, Ballistic and two sizes of energy weapons, new players will have a very hard time adjusting to min/max ranges, projectile speeds, and tracking. If they stuck with 2-3 types of weapons and had a pop-up every time you selected a trial mech (with a "do not show again" option of course) that explained what weapons were on the build and what their ranges were - this would make for a MUCH friendlier new player experience. Moreover, builds with at least a 30% cooling efficiency. I would actually argue for 40% cooling efficiency, but, 30 is decently manageable... My 2ยข
Basically you want everything handed to people out of the gates with zero effort or knowledge... such a great idea particularly with all the Tkers churning alts atm... *slow handclap* Champions were also an awful idea as trial mechs and I said that at the time but lazy people will be lazy. Edit: Am I being bitchy? Sure but exactly the same silly arguments were trotted out by people to say that all mechs should come with double heat sinks as it was "mandatory". If people have nothing to strive for there's no longevity or challenge at all. New players already get the cadet bonuses and protected elo's so its not like they're fighting players in direwolves etc.
I see what you're saying Rem. However, if you make the game harder than it needs to be for actual new players because you're worried about experienced players with alt accounts then you don't really stop the experienced guys and you discourage new people unnecessarily. The experienced guys are going to play the better trial mechs anyway. When I got my kids into mountain biking I made sure they had a good bike to ride. It's pretty discouraging if you're a 30lb kid trying to pedal a 30lb, rigid, single speed bike (most kids bikes) up a hill or even on flats. I made sure I bought them the best bike I could justify so that I made it more likely they'd have a good experience. Everyone has a crappy time riding when you're on a crappy bike. No one has a great time driving a crappy mech when most others are in fully loaded meta mechs. Doesn't mean people are lazy, just impatient and they have lots of other game options.
I've long thought that it'd be wise to give Cadet Bonus newbies basic pilot proficiencies, if not double basics. Or at least let you spend mech XP on trials. It's just hard to have any fun in a mech that's crippled in a game with already unforgiving mobility. Don't even get me started on the heat implications of a stock un-experienced mech. Something like 50% less upfront max DPS compared to double basics with a cool 9x9*1.1.
In my personal opinion trial mechs are supposed to give new players something to play that teaches them the basics and with which they can be reasonably effective on the battlefield. It doesn't need to be full meta, it shouldn't be, but they require something that works to get a grip on the game. Handing them a death trap like the trial Banshee or the former trial Nova Prime is not good for anyone as they press two buttons at once and instantly shutdown / explode without any explanation as to why that happened. I almost fully agree with Durandal here. Make the trial mechs something that can be run reasonably without being utter garbage or a pilot cooker, make them distinct, and have them introduce all the different playstyles so that a newbie can try out what he likes.
I don't quite understand the viewpoint...having trial mechs that are not useless doesn't take anything away from that core design of getting your own mechs and building them as you wish. Someone mentioned something similar on the OP on the main site, my response to it would be more to point back out the SCR-Prime stock model, which I mention in Concept One as being the ideal type of trial mech. With 2 ERLL and 3 ERML, it is a capable, viable build, but far from the meta. It will never be a build that takes "top in chassis" for its design, but it fulfills the two simple requirements: being simple for a brand new player to use, and still having the capability to do some damage, while still having a good armor allocation to help it survive. The idea behind this project is not that we equip every new player with a premade meta mech to run around with and destroy; the idea is that new players are not given crap like the current DWF trial which is, realistically, a DOA build. The hope here is to generate trial mechs that have power, but not trial mechs that are super-meta-ultimate-power-melt-you-in-the-face-and-kill-your-family-line. In other words, I would never advocate that we make the "Cheese Wolf" DWF build into a trial, but rather that we make the DWF trial a mech worth fielding so that a new player doesn't see it as a complete waste of time. It isn't about handing new players everything on a platter, but more about giving them some kind of chance to actually be able to learn the game. Trial mechs will never be the sort of thing that experienced players default to, since experienced players have the knowledge and cbill funding to make something better...however the types of trial variants that we give to new players helps explain why so many of them try this game, then quit within a week or two. We need to do better about giving a new player something to work with.
I had actually considered originally going with 40%, but reduced it to 30% on second though. If the idea behind trial mechs is that they help teach new players the game while they get their cadet bonuses out of the way, then it's important that they do learn what it's like to run around in a hotter mech, while still keeping it somewhat cool enough to manage...so 30% sounded like a good number. But mechs like the 15% DWF-B trial that they have now need to be kept off the trial list, that crap just poisons the new player pool, making it far less likely that they will stick around to really play the game.
I see it this way, for trial mech you want the build to be. 1) Easy to use weaponary, with only 2-3 weapon choices max. 2) Not rely too much on heat management. 3) Have a simple and universal way to operation, meaning that it does not require advance technique to make it functional. 4) Functional on general situations, maning that it is somewhat functional on all types of map. 5) PUG friendly. 6) NOT A META BUILD. If you get a meta for trial anyways then why buy and mod your own? I would think that eventually they would make (C) clan mech, Just keep the (C) bonus on the CT and everything will be fine. Also, not all config are good for trial. Stormcrow Prime is quite nice as a trial. A Gargoyle A, on the other hand, is a fucked up choice.
My .02, your mileage may vary: Only noobs run trial mechs. (except when we troll and drop-I even bought the spider K-C, its perfect) You could make trial mechs as awesome as possible...Noobs dont know/understand/comprehend the basics. And WILL get frustrated if its a bone stock POS hunch, or a tricked out Kintaro slinging lrm5's across the map like a garden hose safely behind friendly lines. IF the thinking behind trials are a better experience for noobs, the BEST thing you could possibly do is ONLY have noobs fight nooobs, and not for 10 battles, I'm thinking ONE HUNDRED. Thats a week of fighting unskilled try harders before running into Team Seal Club. Make the pay outs HUGE, twice the XP, twice the Cbills (of which I still have neither if you get my point) Even GIVE them a mech, pick one- I have first hand feedback from 4-5 folks, good folks who tried and were overwhelmed, frustrated, aggravated and never came back- After a week, either they are hooked, dedicated players, many of whom will stay and pay....er, meant play, or.......its the same old players in broke maps and half assed weekend contests to keep us happy
I've always kind of wondered why PGI doesn't seem to be concerned with new player experience. New players have the most to give, money wise, since they don't own a thing, game wise, and if they like the game they'll probably spend some money. It's a fun game if you can get into it, but most new players are dumped into an arena where they die hard and do little. I do wonder what percentage plays the game a few times, says they're not having any fun, and quits forever. Also, I wonder what percentage of those would keep on playing if they were eased in gracefully and had fun from the beginning. Anyway, back to trial mechs. Making them good would be an excellent start. I honestly think they should be towards the upper end, not the best, but definitely closer to excellent than just good. If the goal is to draw new players in and let them have fun from the beginning I think they have to be.
If they do go with tweaking the trials, make them the best possible. I mean...you could give me a ball bat, and a glove, and stand at home plate at Dodgers field...and I'd suck lol
I think they will move towards a more newbie friendly experience, especially if they ever want to have a successful Steam launch. Despite the lamentations of a few about Steam players ruining the game atmosphere, MWO could really do with an infusion of new blood and new revenue. I can't see the game sustaining itself long term with these expensive mech packs (then again, I might underestimate the BT fandom). In any case, Durandal's idea is where I envisioned trial mechs should be. Not optimal, but not heaping piles of trash like many of them are.
I am more inclined to side with Remarius. If trial mechs are already based off excellent, current, builds why would I want to waste my time buying the same trial mech, to build a near similar design when I can already use it with no effort required. Sure I can't master it, but I'm new to the game so why should I care about mastery at the moment? It is the new player experience that is lacking, the tutorial is shit. Sort that out and you could get people interest and hooked much easier. Teach people heat management, weapon properties and synergy, mobility, torso twisting, identifying xl-mechs, etc.. they are the real skills they need. A newb pilot in a well equipped battlemech is still a newb pilot and will get face rolled without the appropriate skills.
This, a million times this. I've played other MW games and tabletop forever and I was seriously angry with my first match. Stock Nova Prime and the ghost heat tooltip did not get noticed. I shot 1 time, my mech shut down in front of the whole other team and I was promptly killed. If not for my friends telling me how much fun the game could be I'd have quit 5 matches in. And I know at least a dozen people who have done exactly that. The trial builds don't have to be optimal. But they have to be at least useable. They should be built more like the Mad Dog or the Storm Crow trials. Heck, even the Gargoyle isn't had bad from an ease of use standpoint. But some of them are just terrible. I'd have a hell of a time piloting that Direwolf or that Hellbringer myself. And I'd class myself as generally pretty good at this game. ...although, going over the loadouts of the new trials a lot of them seem improved compared with before. The only ones that seem like they are just straight up useless for a newby are the Banshee, Direwolf and Hellbringer.
Hence my point. I am not suggesting a Great metamch. But definitely not something stock. Using a champion (C) stype as an idea is good, cause they can mod it to a good ride with a little bit of effort should they decide to buy one. There is no point making newbies using stock, as more of them will be totally undergun, and with fucking pieces of shit like SHS, fuck those. fuck. A champion with a decently tooled out setup will be good. It does not have to be up to the meta level, but still should be something that is EASY TO SE, and reasonable in combat. The key is to have good cool down, and not too fast or fragile. My example for a simple medium LRM boat, suggested for trial. I am NOT suggesting making all newbies LRM whores, but in trials there should be a bit of everything. It has stack of DHS so heat is less of a problem. Not the fastest, but easily managable speed. 4x ML is a decent backup. STD so they can survive a bit more to have more game time. 2 types of weapons so it is easy to manage. Just set it to LRM, 4x ML, and 4x ML chained. That said, definitely not meta, and not optomized for regular players. Not the best engine for the job, nor is it the best mech variant for it. Too many DHS. Could have used another ML (if not TAG). Probably would use other energy weapon. It is something that stand a chance, but not the best. Newbies can have fun with it. They would also notice the existance of similar mech that are faster (XL and stripped armor) or that are armed with more missiles (different variant) If they want more they would have to burn some cbills (and some MC for mechbay eventually) and go to places like mechspecs for builds. This one is for heavy. Just slightly modified from stock with DHS and endo. Also, engine to a common STD300 with SRM4 replaced on the LRM. CASE added. Once again, the focuse on DHS, ample ammo and the ease to survive. 3 types of weapons are manageable, you key each type to a button, the arm-body difference takes a bit of effort but that is good, and would be a chance for newbies to learn without being too frustrating. It is slow to give the slow heavy feeling, but definitely ina playable state. Ammo is once again just slabbed to the CASE side torso, as opposed to the sneaky placement of regular builds. It is something extremely easy for newbies to understand. Not going into how you mode it to be functional, you guys know it already.
