Came up against this tactic repeatedly yesterday being run by very organised ghost bear teams again and again and again. Basically a zerg rush but specifically: They took down both gates and then sent 6 TBR's/SCR's and 1 Summoner through one gate under cover of a HBR and 4 HBR's a couple of minutes later through the other once we engaged. The 1-2 poptarts and suppressed anyone on a high point. The TBR's took point and the SCR's zerged the defence points. All were suiciders ultimately. The HBR's did the same from the other side. Wave two would zerg omega in short range builds (mostly stormcrows) The first time we were our lance and 8 solo's and had no idea what to expect. Our lance was massacred as we had to throw ourselves in suicide style while the soloers seemed to have no idea and placed themseves on high points on the other side of omega possibly a bit shocked at the tactics. Needless to say CGBI totally ignored them and melted omega. Second time I could warn people and organised them a bit more appropriately via Voip - we were our 4 man plus another 3-4 man and 4-5 soloes. We did a lot better but still couldn't stop it even knowing what they were doing. At least this time it was closer... but still an easy win for them. Anyway - can anyone give me a basic primer on how to stop their tactics. Preferably with maps! Coincidentally there wasn't a single IS vs IS battle available this entire time and only once did we have a more classic battle vs clan (ok one lance seemed to to have uneering aim and know exactly where everyone was at all times but...). Every other battle was a clan 12 man zerg rush in one variant or another. For most of the time we had the ONLY IS lance up and everyone else was solo. Ironically the clan sides could use LRM's unfettered as we only had lights at best with ECM and simply switched a HBR to counter. Few irritated conclusions: Clan groups like CGBI are actively farming CW (no surprise) - there was the obligatory shit talking in all matches; Clan survivability needs to take a hit because there's no way to take down the mechs fast enough. Once Wave 3 comes in CW is effectively over as their options get ridiculous to run zerg. Any good IS mech that can compete with clans (TDR-9S) is nerfed at clan requests to guarantee themselves a farming win. The 250 vs 240 is pointless and did nothing to help. Almost no IS seem willing to run groups atm against them. Overall I'm lost as to why PGI think its working when CW has degenerated to this. PS: I know this is an emo rage to an extent but seriously PGI... this is pathetic.
I really want to like CW, and it's usually a very intense gaming experience when IS fights IS (short of FS9 rushes), but those drops yesterday put a big dent in my -recently refreshed- confidence that PGI knows about this massive imbalance. The CGBI troops yesterday knew what to do, played well and were at least decent shots. I'd imagine we wouldn't have been able to stop them even with 2 lances of ours, as they were simply able to keep us busy and surpressed with 10 of them all the while 2 crows easily smashed the generators. Two of the three CW maps currently available heavily favor clan mechs with their superior combination of speed, fire power and survivability, especially when talking the precious range of 55t to 75t mechs. Sulphur might be an exemption sometimes because of the heat there, but experienced players will simply adapt their firing rate and play style. 'Counter Attack' as a mode is a nice idea in theory, but a coordinated push by clans often ends in them occupying and farming at least one of the drop points, thus rendering all mechs there mood within seconds.
The last drop was better coordinated and even gave us a shimmer of hope of winning,... yet we weren't fighting a 10-12 man CGBI drop there, so I wouldn't even dare to make a comparison. It is clear that with wave 3 CW is essentially dead. I for one am going to ask a twitter question on their plans. I think more of us should,...
It was the same 12 man each time its just two weren't showing CGBI colours. I went back later and they were still farming with exactly the same tactics.
@Remarius the last battle we did was on a different planet against what I presume were 3 clan wolf units and some pugs. We avoided the CGBI planet, remember?
@Remarius, I presume you did the norm and aimed for legs? As a clanner I do think we have it easy in CW.
Only way I've seen to effectively and consistently counter is to hole up, NEVER leave cover except to use the most crushing brawler builds you can get. The superior IS Pinpoint and brawling is the only advantage we have. Laser vomit and ranged builds just don't work against clanners in CW... BNC Laser vomit can do decently well if you again, stay in cover except when a target is <200m. However, the great 3x AC5 BNC-3E, which is AMAZINGLY effective in comp teams and public queue is neutered by the clan's ranged ability on big CW maps... Lights w/ ECM and meta-brawlers in hiding are the only wins I've had vs clans - barring the occasional lucky match/very uncoordinated clan team.
The major issue was killing them in time. You really have to take the term zerg-suicide-rush very literally. They push through the gates and move straight (off course keeping in cover when possible) for the objective. I went as far a hiding at the entrance and core the blob in their back once they went through. Only after cripling 2 did they dispatch someone to harass me. All other went straight ahead. Once at their targets, there is just no killing the fast enough,...
My thoughts/recommendations: As mentioned: This can't be stressed enough when defending against a zerg-rush: you HAVE to focus on stopping them before they reach the gens, and the easiest way to do that is to leg them. Once a target is legged, you IGNORE it (and stay out of line of sight of its fire) while you focus on legging the others. Once they are all legged, THEN you move on to killing them, one by one, at your leisure. But if you find that legging them isn't working (they're moving too fast, you can't get enough shots on them, etc.) another tactic I've seen work well is to actually jump down, right behind them as they push forward, and core out their rear-CTs. If they are rushing as fast as possible to the point that they are actually ignoring you, so to speak, it gives you the perfect opportunity to simply get behind them and one-shot their rear-torsos. Send a few Firestarters to do it even, it doesn't take long when the enemy is completely ignoring you. Of course, if they start to turn and shoot at you as you're coring their backs, then of course it won't be as easy to kill them quickly. BUT, if they're turned to shoot at you, then obviously they are no longer rushing base as fast as possible . . . so, mission accomplished.
Just gonna toss this in the ring... IS Pulse Lasers FTW. From FS9s, to my new love, WUBanshees. ISPLs take filthy clan legs like canned tuna!
@Falconium As stated, that is exactly what I was doing. Coordinating and hiding 8 PUGs to do so may be a tad hard
In CW the speed given by the clan XL, plus the clan XL side torso with 2 crit slots, just adds up too much. The only way to really counter it would be running all the same dropdeck with 3 meta TDRs with STD engine (MPL, LPLs, ERPPCs). They even combine for the needs of short, medium and long range. But of course unless you are a 12men yourself, not gonna happen (for example, I don't even own one). And here is the second problem, PUGs. Clan PUGs will still all have the speed of clan XLs and the added longevity, while IS PUGs, who knows? They might have fragile dropdecks of all XL mechs, they might be too slow, too undergunned (another thing that rarely happens in clanners, they tend to be too hot on bad builds, but never too undergunned, and in a team prospective the latter is still much much worse). In the end, most of times you just have to suck it up
This top though, is why I currently get really frustrated dropping into CW (and why I haven't done it much at all since Christmas). Trying to get a good match, when you're relying on PUGs, is just so frustrating; of course, the same goes for Solo regular queue, but with that, it's only a 5-8 minute match. In CW, I'm forced to sit there for a 20-30 minute match, and watch my friends derp off and die pointlessly . . .
