Incomming AC/2 nerf

I miss my dakka gatling macro

 

AC2 is now useless.

 

How? Have you been playing with is? What has made it useless? Is it the range? Is it the slight cooldown increase?

I am not worried about this change, I don't agree with it, but I don't fear it. I'll go home, jump in my Banshee-3E, get a ~1000 damage game, and be content.

 

Yes i know. That's the goal. I want to run that Five Finger build once in a lifetime without Heatpenalty. I guess i won't ever have that fun. *sniff*

 

It's not useless.
I played some games tonight, some of my friends too, our tests with AC/2s builds still were high damage games.

But I noticed few things.
First is that the most efficient were builds with the most cannons, while before the patch those builds were most of the time too hot. That's one thing I absolutely HATE about this tweak, we'll end using the AC/2s stacked as a heavy and fast firing AC/10. We're looking for high alpha on a weapon supposed to be a DPS weapon. As if the game needed more alpha weapons.
Second, most of the pleasure of playing AC/2 was the rate of fire. Now it's so slow it feels like shit.

It's really what pisses me off, it's not even a matter of whether it became useless or not (as I wrote on the OP I think it's powerful, yet underpowered on a risk/reward perspective compared to high alpha loadouts) but a matter of how they're screwing the feeling that made this weapon special.

 

I run a 5x AC2 Jager and it still shreds enemies. In fact its even easier to manage now due to the slight cool-down timer increase.

 

First drop of the night. Banshee-3E with 2AC5+2AC2. 3 kill 3 assists 903 damage...

I think the "nerf" was actually very good trades. The longer cooldown means more sustained damage and more heat efficiency. It also means your ammo is going to last a little longer in a match, which gives your team more time to contribute to the pounding of a mech. Sure this means that YOU are doing damage slower, but you can lay it down longer which is it's own advantage.

IMO it feels like a straight trade of negatives and positives.

perfectly fine weapons still.

 

I had been playing around with a 4xAC5 Jager, and a 4xAC2 Jager (switching between for fun). I don't think I noticed too much of a difference with my AC2 Jager, although I am not very good in it either way, but I did notice a difference in my 4xAC5 Jager. The small cooldown nerf really makes a difference when firing all 4 at once (fake AC20), as it feels much slower, and I had to adjust my firing speed with the AC's chainfired. The projectile speed nerf didn't seem too noticeable to me, however, I did not engage at range very often.

I think the nerfs seem okay in general, but I cannot for the life of me figure out why they would nerf the AC2 max range. I never had much luck at those extreme distances. Best I could do was annoy every now and then with a few random hits here and there. No real "Massive Damage". Oh well

 

[quote author=Solahma link=topic=6272.msg41348#msg41348 date=1397622239]
The longer cooldown means more sustained damage and more heat efficiency. It also means your ammo is going to last a little longer in a match[/quote]

This is the worst "good reasons" I could hear.
First, pre-patch, if you wanted to shoot slower, because it was easier to manage for any reason, you could. You're taken away something you had and given something you could had, it's not a trade.
Second, this crazy rate of fire / crazy heat generation was exactly the point of AC/2. It was all the thrill of playing this weapons and you had to design the build with this idea in mind. I know most of people were running ultra hot builds that only could fire few times before being in the red. On my side, I always design my AC/2 boats in order to be able to destroy an assault mech without cooldown.
Same about the ammo. On most AC/2 builds posted here I responded "need more ammo". As well as it required to mount a lot of DHS, AC/2 boats required to load a shitload of ammo: 2.5t, 3t of ammo per cannon were mandatory.
I like how the AC/2 made it so extreme, in playstyle as well as in mech building.

AC/2 does not need a "turns non-optimized builds into something playable" tweak. It need a tweak that balance its power if it's considered too powerful, but please please please a tweak that keeps its flavour intact.

I think I nailed it, my "feels like shit" first impression: the AC/2 was a continuous fire weapon, now you start to count the shots. It becomes closer to the AC/5 than it was.

I'm really sorry if I'm over-reacting, but AC/2 was my favorite weapon. AC/2 was the main reason I'm piloting heavy and assault mechs, and maybe even mediums.
It had a unique flavour, they're watering it down. It was powerful, but yet "non meta", they're making it closer to the "high alpha" spirit.
I think this tweak hurts the game not particularly in terms of balance (we'll figure that over time) but in term of variety.

 

You don't say? LOL a little passionate about the AC2 are we?

Honestly? PGI is going to do what PGI is going to do. Can I still play AC2 builds? Certainly. As I tweeted Russ last night, my AC2 Jager can still shred enemy mechs. Would I prefer they left it along? Sure, but it is what it is and since they never really listen to feedback anyways there is no point in me being poopy pants about it.

Also, I don't understand how a watered down AC2 is "high alpha spirit"? Please explain?

 

Because the changes are less noticeable the more cannons you have. It actually favours the builds with multiple cannons (4+).
On your Jagger you have 5 AC/2s, but did you tried a single or double AC/2 mech?
As I wrote in one of my earlier posts, this change (that slows the rate of fire, making place you shots) will lead us to use the AC/2s stacked, as a big "AC/10".
The game has enough "take your time, place your shot, deal high damage" weapons, but it seriously lacks of "takatakataka keep the pressure on the target". I wish they had kept the rate of fire and reduce the damage (and who cares if it does not deal 2dmg anymore).

 

How are you controlling the heat or are you volley firing and firing as permitted as I find just 4 runs me very hot?

 

Have to admit that nailed my problem with the change. I used to leap around in my shadow hawks constantly hammering away at opponents with AC2's and it was FUN. Unless a heavy or assault pilot really kept their cool I'd mostly win the one on one duels because the opponent panicked. Alternatively I'd happily stand behind the front line ramming rounds into people trying to stop our push. The psychological effect was great as you'd see DDC's, stalkers, missile boast desperately backing away from the fight into cover. Then there were the times I'd get caught flatfooted by an atlas at point blank range and have no volley fire panel damage capability to save me.... ooops!

Has that changed... no fucking idea as was out getting laid last night.

I'll test it tonight or tomorrow.

 

No I haven't but now that you mention this I will give it a whirl. I don't think I have any single or double AC2 builds. I think the lowest AC2 build I have is my SHD with 3x AC2s. I will investigate this though as what you said, and how you presented it, makes a little sense. Seeing is believing yes?

[quote author=Remarius link=topic=6272.msg41366#msg41366 date=1397651466]
How are you controlling the heat or are you volley firing and firing as permitted as I find just 4 runs me very hot?
[/quote]

My Jager is one of the easiest mechs I own to drive. Two buttons... Button #1 = Group Fire all 5 AC2s, Button #2 = Chain Fire all AC2s LOL Easy Peasy.

 

Lol I'll give 5 a try and see how it goes.

 

Bingo, Epikt.

 

Really? Think it about it a little more. My Banshee can now lead a longer, max-dps charge because it takes longer to overheat while holding down the fire button. Pre-patch, I could lead a charge for only a limited time before overheating. You could say "you can control that by heat management" but then you are voluntarily lowering your DPS, now it is optimized and all I have to do it hold the trigger. The difference was immediately noticeable and I was able to lead a strong push mid-match.

Also, the change from a ~.5 to ~.67 second cooldown for the AC2 is hardly a reason to label it as "closer to the AC5" with it's previous 1.5 now 1.6 cooldown. Sure, the change is noticeable, but it's really not that much when compared to the huge changes between different auto cannons.

Another interesting advantage that was pointed out by Falconium and Trounce last night is that paired AC5 and AC2 systems are now staggered. When fired at the same time, consecutive shots are never synchronized which means your target is suffering a lot more cockpit shake.

 

Have to say the demise of AC 5's seems not to have happened.

Didn't screen shot the 0k 10a 920d match but here's the other 4 I just did.



[img width=700 height=437]http://i1070.photobucket.com/albums/u482/Kossuth1/ScreenShot0043_zpsf05112ff.jpg[/img]

[img width=700 height=437]http://i1070.photobucket.com/albums/u482/Kossuth1/ScreenShot0045_zps3a1f912e.jpg[/img]

[img width=700 height=437]http://i1070.photobucket.com/albums/u482/Kossuth1/ScreenShot0048_zpsce07e690.jpg[/img]

Note the amusing match with 7 firebrands even though they're not for sale.

 

working as intended­™