Game balance after Clan Invasion [Poll+Feedback]

IS lasers are not instant pin-point weapons either.
The clan lasers' duration is only 30% longer, which is not that much. Especially considering that on the other hand their range is 67% higher (!!!) and their damage 40% higher, while heat (the other counter balance) is only 25% higher.

 

I guess I was just more mindful of twisting out of the damage of the yellow lasers! The green IS MLas never scare me THAT much, but, knowing the Nova is out there with 12x C-ERML with twin 42point alphas seconds apart scared me a little.

 

Well, you're wrong!
That's very reliable and versatile weapon and always was a favourite of mine. But I must admit that since clan invasion I sometimes had trouble engaging enemy mechs (I played the HBK-4P a lot) because of their superior range, and how it would expose myself to close the distance (if it was 1v1 it would be easy to rush that Nova and tank with left side, but if it's covered by its teammates it's pointless).

I also have to admit (despite my visceral anti-clan philosophy I'm now known for :blush: ) that, except for the lasers, I'm overall pretty pleased by how clan tech works. It's of course too soon to tell how it can be adjusted and in what direction (wait for the players to unlock perks and get used to the new weapons, etc) but my first impression is good.

 

I agree. I was actually surprised at how well balanced it felt. I thought for sure the Clan Tech would wipe the floor with the Inner Sphere. However, the strengths and weaknesses with both sides really created a GREAT new dynamic feel in-game to me and I feel that there is very little that is a clear "This side wins"

The only exception is the new 2xC-ERPPC, 1xC-Gauss MadCats. Those are by FAR the best jump snipers in game now. Fast, high pin-point and can lose a ST and keep going. Yikes! :whacko:

 

I think this is the best they've done to win people over. Still no money from me until CW is shown and working, mind you, but this is the most positive reaction I have had to the game in a long time.

The clan range bonus does need a tweak, down to 50% from 67, which is modest but still provides them with an inherent advantage. Other necessary tweaks will show with time.

 

Who didn't see that coming?

[size=8pt]...but fuck prose, I'd rather quote a poet of our times, El-P...

everytime make a move in the industry start a new movement
kid im not losin
set em to sleep on the eve with an edge of a generations ruthlessness
whos in charge, let me see the leader man, stop the foolishness
cop the new shit bitch

 

lol Of course! That is the first thought I think most of us had when looking at the Madcats.

However, that is the only mech I really see as extremely unbalanced. That was all I meant.

However, I was discussing with a friend last night our opinions on the shift with the Clan Invasion and how the battles do see to be swaying more into brawling and direct fire engagement with slightly less jump snipers. We came up with the idea to include more PPC EMP effect. EG: Instead of PPCs only disabling ECM, PPCs would also disable BAP, Targeting Computers, and, Jump Jets. If we assume the PPC interferes with a DDC's ECM, why would it not attack other electrical systems? This would shift not only Streakers and LURM boats with BAP to lock on faster (and counter ECM) but it would also allow you to stop a Jump Sniper mid flight if you're quicker on the trigger. Obviously, that's assuming PGI/The Community is focused on shifting away from the Poptart meta, but, I at least thought it was an interesting idea.

But, that's bringing us off the topic of Clan Balance, I'll make a new thread for that idea...

 

That. Everything S7 just said. So much that.

 

I'm a stat whore so I took Lan at his word

The data is extract from a pool of 11 drops I had today (5 drops in BJ-1) and yesterday (6 drops in HBK-4P). It's not enough to provide accurate and representative results, but it can give a first approximation. Hopefully I'll do more drops in the next days and others will compile similar data.
All drops were in Conquest mode (most ended by mech destruction).
All drops were solo.

After a first examination of the results I chose to remove my own scores from the data because - being a non-random element in the matchmaking (obviously!) and being better than the average hear: - it significantly affects them:
- compared to other IS mediums I had 44% higher score, 57% higher damage, 83% more kills and 42% less death, causing a variation of +14% in score, +18% in damage, +27% in kills and -14% in deaths.
- compared to other IS mechs I had 46% higher score, 57% higher damage, 67% more kills and 34% less deaths, causing a variation of +6% in score, +7% in damage, +8% in kills and -1.7% in deaths.
(since 3/3/3/3 is not active yet, not including me should not affect the mech pool repartition)


The mech pool was composed as follows:

IS 36.4%
light 6.5%
medium 9.3%
heavy 8.9%
assault 11.7%

clan 63.6%
light 4.5%
medium 12.6%
heavy 24.3%
assault 22.3%

It makes 2 clan mechs for 1 IS mech (I am amazed by how many players preordered those mechs! ). Almost 1/4 of all mechs were clan heavies and more than 1/5 clan assaults.
We also notice clan lights are not popular.


Now here are the average scores.
The number in brackets next to clan results is the variation compared to the equivalent IS result.


/!\ Those results must be taken cautiously! /!\
First, as already stated, the drop sample is very small and can't pretend to give any representative result.
Second, clans are new to the game and we're on a transitory phase. Only in few week or months, when players would have unlocked their mechs' perks and got used to the new tech, we'll be able to have a better view of the game balance.


IS
score 45
kills 0.76
assists 4.2
dmg 307
death 0.68
victory 0.49

Clans
score 47 (+4%)
kills 0.66 (-14%)
assists 4.2 (-0.5%)
dmg 325 (+6%)
death 0.70 (+3%)
victory 0.53 (+8%)

Funny thing, while when dropping in a clan mech you have better chance of victory and you will in average deal more damage, IS mechs still get more kills. Higher pin-point damage is probably an explanation.
That being said, differences are not huge.


Now sorted by classes.

IS light
score 44
kills 0.63
assists 5.2
dmg 265
death 0.43
victory 0.68

Clan light
score 30 (-31%)
kills 0.55 (-13%)
assists 3.8 (-26%)
dmg 189 (-29%)
death 0.64 (+45%)
victory 0.36 (-47%)

Clan lights are not popular, it also looks like they're not efficient
On the other hand, IS light mechs appear to give the team a nice victory bonus (in conquest only?).

IS medium
score 46
kills 0.70
assists 4.3
dmg 309
death 0.78
victory 0.47

Clan medium
score 49 (+7%)
kills 0.74 (+7%)
assists 4.4 (+2%)
dmg 347 (+12%)
death 0.74 (-5%)
victory 0.48 (+1%)

Large damage difference in favor of clans, and slightly more kills too. Nova in da place!

IS heavy
score 46
kills 1.1
assists 3.5
dmg 331
death 0.68
victory 0.41

Clan heavy
score 50 (+8%)
kills 0.67 (-39%)
assists 5.2 (+49%)
dmg 336 (+2%)
death 0.68 (+0%)
victory 0.61 (+51%)

Outch! IS heavies dealt similar damage but kill almost twice as clan of the same class! I'm not sure it's a good thing, but the rise of meta TBRs will probably balance this result in the near future.
I can't think of an explanation for IS heavies low victory rate.

IS assault
score 45
kills 0.66
assists 4.2
dmg 323
death 0.79
victory 0.44

Clan assault
score 46 (+1%)
kills 0.62 (-6%)
assists 3.1 (-25%)
dmg 327 (+1%)
death 0.73 (-8%)
victory 0.49 (+10%)

Again more kills for IS (despite having way less DS than usual on the field). Close results though.


Roughly, it confirms my first impression of clan tech being pretty balanced (with some reserves I already ventured).
That being said, we can expect clan mechs to become more effective when mastered, possibly causing unbalance (wait and see).

 

Nice stats. I wouldn't be surprised if the clan numbers climb a bit in the coming weeks. People are still shaking down their builds and haven't arrived at the meta sweet spot. I've been playing a new weight class for me (assault) so am probably fighting ELO, but the damage numbers from the clanners seem low.

 

The question would be now : Which build to favor now to get a chance vs the Clan Mechs?

I read that they have less armour and bigger hit boxes. Our chance would be to maximize the burst builds?

SRM / PPC and Balistics? And avoid the lasers?

 

Epikt is my hero.

Great breakdown, man!

 

Average figures always seem low.
We mostly remember the high score, and because we occasionally see a 1000+ Direwolf and see 600+ every games, we think of 400-500ish being somewhere in the middle. But it's not, we forget all the low damage games that weight heavily in an average.
(it's true for others' scores as well as our own)

 

Voted - "i don't give a ****! Any more content is welcomed!"

Things I like:
New sounds, new mechs, new weapons, etc.

With all the new content introduced, fights definitely have a different feel. The IS Meta is now quite, whether it is due to those players trying out their new mechs or the IS Meta is now less optimal, I am not sure but it is a welcomed changed.

The number of players is way up. It is nice to get mixed up a bit more, see new faces ... and then subsequently shoot them in said face.

Digging the new Radar module. As long as you are semi close to full cover you can avoid almost all damage. I find dieing to LRMS as embarassment, so t has become my new primary module.

Things I do not like:

Have to change play style.
Some mechs are flat out defunct.

In my jenner, I must be much much more careful. With the amount of fire power that clans have, you simply can not be as ballsy with the CT as large as it is. Other lights do better, fire starters, spiders and ravens ... but I prefer the jenner.

In my misery, have to hid/snipe and be very careful about when to engage. Engaging in a single clan that is healthy is a dicey proposition. Engaging several clans, is death. One mess up with placement and cover can end your match quickly.

The clan mechs are powerful, if I do not want my composite KDR to drop to low, I will have to resort to playing certain mechs ... and ignoring others that while I like to play them, they simply are less effective now.


All in all, the patch was a good thing. I am looking forward to playing the clans when they come available ... hopefully I don't have anymore intimate talks with my keyboard, it can handle it.

 

Yep radar deprivation module is a must, I was against it, but currently you can't afford to be hit by LRMs too will all the new firepower on the battlefield, I thought it needed a nerf but actually it's fine.

I only played MWO but I read that clan mechs are supposed to be as strong as they are, but on an online competitive game I'm fine with weapons differences, I'm totally fine with the more heat but more range and damage....but what I don't like is that they weight less and often equip needs less critspace. Reading around I guess that "it's supposed to be", but imo if they weight the same and need same crit space that can stay as they are with not a single nerf, but if among comparable weapons one weights 1-2 less tons and needs less space, and so do DHS, ofc it is really hard to balance on a competitive PvP.

At least this is my impression.

 

Personally I feel that you are very much correct. When it comes to the clan mechs, we are very much limited in speed and maneuvrability without the chance to min/max engine size in our builds. This gives the clan mechs a different set of tactics to follow. The real difference is in the Light and Assault classes. For IS mechs, lights can be sped up to be excellent strikers, getting in and out before damage can be done to them, but clan lights have to be piloted as harassers or assault guards, seldom straying from the rest of your team and shooting from inside your teams packs. Assaults have the same thing, an IS assault has a chance against light and mediums because they can retain their manuverability, the clan assaults are so slow than any lights or mediums can circle them straight to hell.

The lights are no longer roaming death machines, and the assaults NEED friends around to keep from a swift death. And I also feel like the Clan assaults are going to min/max even less, because they are forced to keep as much anti-ISLight weaponry around that they can, such as a couple SSRM6 in lieu of the 2xGauss - 2xPPC Dire Wolf.

Things are balancing out quite nicely. Certainly the clan pilots will get more powerful as they get mastered and pilots can change their tactics.

One caveat, I think you are off about the Clan lights, I was having consistently 500+ dmg rounds in my 2xERLL Adder yesterday night, even hit 900 comfortably. I just had to change from IS thinking where you close in with your light, to keeping as much distance as possible. They couldn't even touch me. The Kit fox I slapped the C arm on and stuck with the assault pack, protect them and got all kinds of ECM bonuses. The clans take more teamwork (ironic considering canon) than IS mechs.

 

Exactly, they have it backwards in MWO. Why? Cuz they don't have any genius solution in regards to incentives that can get players to run honor-based Clan tactics.

You can't force ethics on a playerbase unless there is an incentive (or if they are all really cool with each other [ie, hobby shop BT/MW])... without CW, there is no incentive they could use besides making them stupid op and going 10v12.

Clan is balanced in original BT/MW because it required ethical, honorable play, which was canon. If somebody pulled some dishonorable play, then you could call it out on the spot man to man. There's not a clean way to ensure that in MWO, it's internet anonymity... unless CW gave Clan players a reason to do so, they won't just do it on their own... especially not with the way the mechs are balanced.

Kinda sad, but what can you do? Force people to grow a conscious and adhere to it...? ...in a video game..? Hehe... It is what it is.

 

We talked about this before, but one possible fix is to have the Clan tonnage equal to more than IS tonnage for purposes of matchmaking. For each 1.0 ton on Clan mechs, the equivalent IS tonnage can be 1.3. Basically, it's the same as upping clan mechs into the next weight class.
Clan light mechs = to IS medium mechs.
Clan medium mechs = IS heavies.
Clan heavies = IS assaults.
Clan assaults = IS super mega robo Gundam with chainsaws between the legs.

 

Hmm. Time to try and sum up my impressions of the clans and the current balance.

First a bit of pros and cons for the Clans.

+ Long range.
+ superb firepower.
+ versatility.
+ systems/weapons use fewer slots.
+ omnipods make it easier to swap weapons/components.
+ C-XL engines, you can survive the loss of a side torso.

- 'locked' central chassis. (can't change armor-/chassis-/engine type.)
- higher heat.
- longer beam-/burst duration.
- generally slower mechs then their IS counterparts.
- general lack of CAMS.
- general lack of JJ.
- too many different weapons on the same chassis (4+ weapon groups.)
- no zombie builds possible.

This is just from the top of my head.

/CX