Discussion Game: What is Crucial for good Builds !? (for Beginners)

An important question before making a good build. Every player can make builds, but not always are they viable. What is crucial? In this discussion game, you can give us other players your opinion on what to prioritize for making a good build! Others shall feel free to comment/discuss the suggestions.

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Rule: Given a set of 15 aspects (disordered). Give us a specific Role (Scout/Fire Support/Brawler) and a priority-order 1. - 15. of the following aspects for making a good build and explain your choice!

• Engine Type (STD/XL)
• Armor Value
• Energy Weapons
• Amount of Ammo
• Cool Efficiency Value
• Missile Weapons
• (Jump Jets)
• Structure (STD/ES)
• AMS
• (ECM)
• Firepower
• Heatsink Type (STD/DHS)
• BAP
• (Artemis IV)
• Ballistic Weapons
• Armor Type (STD/FF)
• Movement Speed

Example:

"Role: Brawler
1. Firepower
2. ...
3. ...
...
15. BAP

I chose this order, because..."

 

I shall begin myself

Role: Firesupport (Indirect) (my favorite role)
[list type=decimal]
[*]Heatsink Type DHS
[*]Structure ES
[*]Missile Weapons
[*]Firepower
[*]Amount of Ammo
[*]Cool Efficiency Value
[*]BAP
[*]Armor Value
[*]Energy Weapons
[*]Engine Type XL
[*]Movement Speed
[*]AMS
[*]Jump Jets
[*]Armor Type STD
[*]Ballistic Weapons
[/list]

For making a viable LRM Boat I chose this priority-order. At first you should upgrade your Heatsinks to DHS. In no case Standard Heatsinks are better than DHS. As next Endosteel should always be chosen over Standard in my opinion, because having more free Tonnage always means you can load more into your mech, and what a LRM-Boat needs is a lot of Ammo. The only case where you might chosing Standard over Endosteel is if you need more critslots for more critslot-hungry DHS for more Cool Efficiency. But in most cases you should go fine with Endosteel. Firepower, especially of your Missile.Pods is very important, because your task is to take down enemies faster than they can reach you or your teammates. Especially in 1on1 you will come out on the short end, if you cant take your opponent fast out with heavy rains before he can fire back. So try to give the best size and amount of Missile.Pods for your Mech, doing high Alpha-Damage in a single Volley-Blow. Dont go for Pods which doesnt fit to the limited Tube Sizes in the Mech! For dealing damage over the whole match you should give a good amount of ammo, so try to give 2tons of Missile.Ammo for each Pod. BAP is important for having faster Locks. Always enable if possible.

Now its time to raise the Armor to an acceptable Level. Go for Full Armor on Head, CT, Sidetorsos and Arms - if Pods are located there. Legs can have less Armor, if your Movement Speed is fast. For Defense you should consider Lasertype Weapons. Recommended are Medium Lasers or Large Lasers, because they have a great Balance of Damage/Heat Production/Weight/Critslots and because of the relatively low Heat they produce, they are good complementary weapons to (hot) LRM.Pods.

If you still have the free critslots to trade in an XL-Engine, go for it. As a LRM-Boat you should keep distance to your enemies, so having a more risky Engine should be ok, just to have more Tonnage free for Ammo and/or Heatsinks. If you have enough Ammo and Cooling, try to raise the Engine to a Size, where you can move faster than Stock Speed. You need it, to keep your distance to your enemies. AMS is recommened, but if you play LRM-Boat you stay far behind the frontline, so you should be invisible for most enemies. And if some enemy LRM-Boats counterattack you, you still can find cover.

Jumpjets can be fun to be more agile, but sometimes the Mech cant take any, so just a nice to have. Armor Type FF is in most cases, because of using a lot of critslots for other crucial things, not available. Ballistic Weapons should not be considered for LRM-Boats, simply because they weigh alot (including Ammo) and also take alot of needed critslots.

Last but not least you should activate Artemis IV if possible for a tighter Punch.

This is how i take priority when building an LRM-Boat.

Blagg

 

I dont feel that giving just one type of play style and mech really justifies the multiple uses of any of these items. They all are situationally different even on same role mechs.


1. Double Heat Sink - This comes first and foremost as it is needed on each and every mech, regardless of what you do. Pretty self explanatory what it does and why. Increases heat dissipation from each heat sink from 1.0 to 1.4 except for the original 10 required for the mech to operate which dissipate at 2.0 points per second. And although called a Double Heat Sink it actually takes up 3 spaces but weighs the same as normal heat sinks.

2. Heat/cool Efficiency - Another one that applies to any and every mech. Has synergy with number 1 so you cant have one without the other. Absolute worst thing for anything mech is to shut down right in the middle of anything. Shut down = death. Learn to control your firing rate if you are running a hot machine.

3. Armor - While different mechs can/need varying amounts of armor, they ALL need sufficient amounts to stay alive. Cant kill, cap or assist if you die first.

4. Engine size/type - This decision right here is going to tailor your entire mech into whatever role you want it to play. STD for brawling and survival, XL for speed and payload. This is also going to be a huge part of the weight used in a mech so its very important to consider what you want your mech to do and which chassis you are using.

5. Speed - Directly related to engines but you have to have the engine first so this is number 5. In no situation is being slower considered better as long as you have the option to go faster. We'd all run more Atlas' if they ran around at 80 kmh.

6. Endo-steel - 9 out of 10 times you are going to use this if not more. The vast majority of mechs can spare the 14 slots for the weight and typically the only reason its not used is because you cant afford it yet. Always get Endo before Ferro. Same slot usage but more weight reduction out of the Endo.

On to the weapons, but on a side note i believe that pretty much 1-6 and all the weapons on my list really should all be just as important as the first choice. All these things need to be considered in order to design your mech. The weapons got placed lower due to not every mech using the same weapons but most all use the above choices.

7. Weapon Ammo - This needs to be considered first because not only do you have to make room for the weapon, but also the ammo. That can potentially run conflicts with whether you can even use a certain weapon or not or if you can even carry sufficient amounts of it. Also, ammo exploding and killing you has to be remembered so always crit pad and only carry as much ammo as you need, not want. If you massive amounts of ammo and have weight to spare, invest in AMS or some such item.

8. Ballistic weapons - Typically heavier and uses decent amounts of ammo, these guys require more consideration. They take can take up a pretty large chunk of real estate in your slots but they also dish out a LOT of pain in a direct fire pattern. These are your "typical" guns. Point and click. Could also be considered some of the harder weapons to use in the game due to slower projectile speeds and most A/Cs not being all that compatible together with weight, ammo,convergence and slot issues.

9. Missiles - If you are trying to boat LRMs then this gets the number 8 spot. Same reasons as well. Have to consider the masses of ammo needed and the weight of these guys. If using SRMs, these have low weight but also have limited amounts of versatility. I'd consider these the easiest weapons to use in the game. They do what they do very well, but thats about all your gonna get out of em.

10. Energy Weapons - If build is based on energy, place this on number 8 spot. Typically the most versatile and deadly weapons in the game, they do not require ammo and usually weigh much less for what you get out of them than any other weapon type. Because of this, I usually place my energy weapons last after having to make so much room for the other weapons. Never underestimate any laser or number of lasers. At some point i guarantee you they will save your ass because everything else ran out of ammo and the energy weapon got the kill for you. Most energy weapons are required to stay on target for a small time to do max dps and because of this Id rank these as Moderate skill to get the most out of them.

11. Firepower - This is just going to be the result of whatever your weapon needs for your mech are and as such must be placed after the weapons. While firepower is important, often times good timing, accuracy, Location and luck will help compensate for a lack of firepower.

12-15. I would lump these together as they depend more on style and flavor.


12. ECM - If you have it you will be damn important to your team and considerably raises survivability. While very handy and always welcome, very few mechs offer it and even then you can survive without it.

13. AMS - While many people dont use it, this enhances survivability for you and anyone around you at a low weight and c-bill cost. General rule of thumb is : If you can move faster than 100Kmh, you dont need AMS. If under 60Kmh, absolute must + hope theres a friendly ECM close by.

14. Jump Jets - Thought your mech was nimble and could move around before JJ? Jump Jets are one of the handiest and most fun items in the game. Jump snipers, Terrain not being an issue, damage distribution, Faster turning speed, and no fall damage are all things JJ can do for you and more. So why is this placed below AMS and ECM if it can do so much? Because they dont add much to the whole team play help/support factor. They dont protect anyone or cause additional damage or increased lock speed. They Jump.

15. Artemis - Very situationally handy, Artemis is only really going to be noticed on SRMs. Ive tried again and again to notice any real difference with LRMs but nothing worth the weight and cost of it.
Artemis takes up 1 slot for every missile weapon you have loaded and also 1 ton for every weapon as well. When used, this is going to tighten the spread of your missiles. Typically this is considered a bad thing as people seem to need to have a huge missile profile to hit lights. I dont understand this because people can hit a light with gauss far away but not a shotgun blast of missiles right next to em? A tighter spread, imo, is always better because the damage doesnt get spread around all over the torsos and arms and legs as much. And without artemis you WILL be hitting all those parts unless you're standing on top of them. I want my full SRM 6/4 combo to hit all in the same place to bring the enemy down faster, not have him laugh at my corpse as my super spread out missiles never hit where i needed em to. Basically, if using SRMs and have the weight to spare, go for it.

16. BAP - While very handy I find myself rarely using this unless im in a light mech or using SSRMs. Most mediums, heavies, assaults cant keep up with the lights to keep the BAP useful so they end up using things like TAG.

Modules also deserve a mention here. While nothing to base a build around, they can drastically increase certain aspects for you like sensor lock speed, retention or distance. Or even a Seismic Sensor. They take awhile to grind but are well worth it. Just avoid the extra zoom module.

Hope this helps and is close enough to following your rule I just felt that a true beginner might need a broader view of some of these items and their importance.

 

Here is my list:
1. Heatsink Type: DHS.
It may be expensive for newbie, but DO IT! Few builds will benefit from NOT having DHS. Heat is an important thing in this game. The amount of DHS in your build will depend on your weapon setup. That should be tweaked after getting the weapons.

2. Movement Speed
Speed is life. Faster is always nice. That having said you are pilot a mech not a paper airplane. You may need the tonnage of the engine elsewhere for other things like weapons(you do want to kill things, right?) and armor(hang around a little bit for more damage output).

3. Firepower
You need a reasonable amount of firepower suitable for your playstyle and combat range. This may mean lots of things, and takes quite a bit of testing to get it right. You would want your mech to be able to operate and fire when you want to without getting OH every few seconds. Oh yeah, bringing a CoolShot helps a bit, but is hardly a sustainable solution to a lengthy battle.

4 Armor Value
Well, depending on your playstyle you can choose to shave off some armor for some extra tonnage. The thinner the armor, the easier a shot will send you to your maker (or machine god) If you are fast you may be a bit more risky, but armor is everything in a slow brawler type. Also, think of the armor distribution between parts, that makes a huge difference.

5. Cool Efficiency Value.
Heat mnage is important. Your REAL useful CEV comes from the weaponslab in smurfy, use it. Think how to use your mech while keeping your mech cool.

6. Engine Type (STD/XL)
Engine size equals speed, also the internal engine contains built-in Heat Sinks that is way more effective than extra ones (I assume you are not an IDIOT and is using DHS). XL engine takes up 3 crit slots on each Side Torso(LT/RT) making them a no-no zone of getting destroyed in additional to the CT, but they are much lighter. A simple idea is that basically ALL lights would be better off with XL engine, the increased speed and what not is definitely better. Fast and agile mechs would benefit more from the XL, since you can avoid getting hit and spread your recieved damage better. Slower mechs should consider getting STD for the much better survival ability, and you may be able to zombie even. However, the saved tonnage of the XL does allow you to use many more heavy weaponary, which might sometimes worth the risk. The mechs does matter, some mechs have a huge LT/RT making it really dangerous to carry an XL (like a hunchback). Oh STD engines are dirt cheap, XL would cost a kidney or two.


7-11 Energy Weapons, Ballistic Weapons, Missile Weapons, BAP, AMS, ECM
Consider your weapon and their layout as a whole. Make it suit the purpose and playstyle of both YOU as the pilot and that particular mech variant. Know your mech first, read up on them and see if it is what you want, you can't tank with a Spider and you can't scout with an Atlas. To consider the weapon system as a while you should consider things from hardpoint position, to Heat management, to ranges, and unfortunately tonnage. Bear in mind you may need extra slots and tonnage for ammo and extra DHS. Also, you may consider things like TAG if you are using LRM, and BAP for streaks. AMS would depending on your role, mech speed and available extra space.
*AS FOR ECM: BRING IT!* If you mech can have ECM, just slam that into your mech. You will always benefit from ECM one way or another, and it is well worth the slot and tonnage.

12 Amount of Ammo
Yes you need ammo, and depending you weapon and playstyle you will run out of them if you are skimming on them. Obviously energy weapons does not need ammo, at the cost of more heat generated, but otherwise you will want to bring just a bit more than enough. Your playstyle matters though, if you like spraying you may need a bit more.

13 Jump Jets!
If your mech variant supports it I would usually suggest you to bring at least one, if not 2. They greatly increase mobility. Anything beyond 1 and 2 depends on your playstyle. JJ are wonderful things though, so when in doubt, bring them.

14-15 Structure (STD/ES), Armor Type (STD/FF)
Basically the same thing, you give up 14 crit slots for some extra tonnage to play with, ES is ALWAYS more efficient than FF, ALWAYS.
I DON'T CARE WHAT THE LORE SAYS, ALWAYS TAKE ES FIRST BEFORE EVEN THINKING OF USING FF, UNLESS YOU ARE AN *IDIOT* And there is NO EXCEPTIONS. So basically if you have lots of crit slots and not enough tonnage, get ES and free up a few tons for various things. You do not always have to take ES, sometimes it is better to have the crit slots for things like DHS and what not. IF you finish the build and tonnage and have 14+ crit slots left, Get ES. If anything you can at least upgrade your engine or give yourself some extra ammo or armor. Any extra critical slots you can spare you may then use FF. Beware that you take up too much space with ES/FF and end up not having enough slots for your important things. Yes you can take both ES and FF, but remember ALWAYS ES BEFORE FF. Also remember that you can also save tonnage with using XL engine.

THE MOST IMPORTANT THING: JOIN MCHSPECS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

No ranking for Artemis and the pros/cons?

 

Artemis? Well, it is useful for things like tighter grouping and lock speed, but the extra crit slot and the extra ton is quite expensive really. Useful as an upgrade for some specialized builds only, or when ou have the extra ton and crit space to spare.

 

Whelp, if you're going to do a load out priority list for 'beginners', shouldn't Artemis be listed/discussed?

 

at first i wanted to list Artemis, but is only viable for Missile Builds.. and thats too specific.. also ECM - not every mech can load it.

IMO Artemis should be taken if you have the free slots/tonnage, because your Missiles are hitting tighter, and so more deadly for moving targets. If you dont have the slots/tonnage, then go without. In my LRM.Boats i always have Artemis activated.

 

No, hes right. we listed every damn thing except the Artemis. People are gonna have questions about it. Most mechs dont have JJ but we listed it, same with ECM or AMS or any of that stuff. Ill add Artemis to my list.

 

ok, i added Artemis IV and ECM to the list..

 

To me. The only thing that truly, really matters is DHS. You HAVE to have it in 99% of the builds. Everything else can fluctuate depending on CBill budget and purpose of the mech you want to run.

So:

Find a mech to love the look and ideology of. Then put in DHS. Then tweek for your purpose.

 

true but it doesnt answer any potential questions they may have like what does it do or is it worth using. Also, most people these days, at least in my experience, dont know the typical ideology of what the mech is supposed to be. If they did, you wouldnt see Jager brawlers as they are supposed to be an anti-aircraft long range weapon platform, not a brawler.

 

I did say fit your purpose. For example:

I want ballistics on my arms = Jager or Cataphract, pick the one you think looks cool or fits your theory, then work on the build you want. Double Guass, 5 AC2, whatever....

#1 DHS
2-15 depends on build

Always Endo before FF.

 

The most important thing is picking the right chassis for the role. That means tonnage, hardpoint configuration and engine rating.

I start in one of two ways: role and weapons first or chassis first.

"A flanker with 7MPLas" looks very different on a Blackjack, Hunchback, Awesome and Stalker. Almost as different as "I have a Cataphract 2X, what can I do with it?"

I just assume DHS and Endo when I make a build, so that's number 1--I suppose--for each role.

 

I think we are just using the same words but meaning different things. When i think ideology, im thinking what this mech is supposed to do in the actual MW universe, not the idea of just what im thinking i want him to do.

Im catching your drift now

 

I don't think the in-universe ideology matters AT ALL. It is the effect of a build that matters. Read up on the abilities and specs on the mechs to see if it suits you. I would suggest starting in a light to medium mech first, since it is easier to manage that way. A Jenner is always a good start. Yes, evven if it is an anti-air mech, you can brawl with it if the chassis abilities supports it well, and the build suits the needs. Yes, AC40 Jagers are nice. You are taking a ride in YOUR mechs, not the lore-correct mech which is usually an inferior piece of junk relatively in many cases.

Granted, I do want a Timberwof or an axeman.

Well, the fact is that we are here NOT doing roleplay, but solely to destroy enemies. So, if a Jager functions better as a close ranger monster given a certain build, then sue it that way!

Technically you can't customize IS mechs much... but we can do it anyways. The idea is to tweak things to the mx of your advantage, building the cheesiest monster you can to trash everyone in your path.

Well, technically many mechs are not equipped with DHS, but we all do it anyways... Technically we should pay for repair/ammo cost, but we do not anymore (or I would be mostly piloting the useless crap of trail mechs or only lights just to save on cbills amongst other things).

What something can do in MW lore only matters if you can't tweak the builds. Once you can tweak things (or the old create-your-own-mechs in tt Battletech games) you get many many things that are not ging with the MW lore. And the fact is, despite the flavors of MW lore, we are not roleplaying, just running in a simulator (or worse, the stupid 3rd person view) piloting the most powerful min/maxed monster you can crank out to trash your enemies.

On the other hand, if someone in-universe has the resources and the ability to tweak builds like a boss, you KNOW they will do it. This is not 40K where mech designs are seen as sacred guides blessed upon the humankind by a machine god.

 

lol, did you take that remark personally? It was just a small input based on information that i read incorrectly and therefore posted a wrong remark. relax bro.

But lemme ask you this...if we arent playing to fit the lore, then why the fuck do we have only mechs that are "available" at this time in MW universe? I want my Timberwolf now if we are just going to throw the lore out.