(Dis)-agreements, further feedback or "solutions" regarding the ups and downs of the changes are welcome and asked for here Just had a Conquest Match (my preferred mode because it does not have the "let's build a fireing line and see what happens" to the same extent as Assault, but I digress) and I must say... wow. After the Patch Notes I decided to get myself a Cap Accelerator (damn you PGI that money was meant for a new Mech + engine) because I figured that it would help, maybe keep the capping at the same rate as non-cap acc prepatch capping and BOY was I wrong... Capping now feels like it takes an eternity and the side which manages to get 3 cap points first might as well declare itself the winner. Was in Tourmaline, we had 3 cap points and stalled the enemy team at Eps and Theta. I made my way over to Gamma and capped it with the help of a Jenner. At that time, the enemy team did a nasty push and it was around 7-8 down on our side and 2 on their side. I ran over to Eps as they pushed further towards Theta and we had around 550 points as I left Gamma. So I have seen matches that would go like this and we would still lose because the opponents, after stomping us, could spread and cap... no more. I was not even able to fully uncap Eps, which was only at 3/4th to begin with, before we had won by points while they were just halfway through uncapping Theta and Kappa. Also, even with Premium Time and 2xXP bonus I only got a mere 1200 XP and a bit over 100k CBills, in the X5. So what does this tell us now? - Conquest, at the moment, means that your team HAS to divert assets to capping, which is good. No running around in a 6-7 (or with 12v12 now in a 9-10) Mech strong group and get rid of the other side's main force before you focus on capping yourself. I consider this a plus, as it means more tactical and strategical thinking and organizing. - Your fasties are a lot more important now, maybe even quick Mediums and Heavies. With 12 v 12 you should have, normally, a nice variety and once/if tonnage match-up/restriction is implemented, your teams should feel more natural. I also consider this a plus as the effort of Lights and Mediums on cap duty can't be ignored or brushed off anymore. Having only 1 or 2 of those will be a severe disadvantage of your team - Here comes the first problem, though: Because of the duration, your cappers have to do ONLY that one thing named capping. If a skirmish or larger brawl happens, don't shout for them to support you because it might as well mean you lose on cap points. This hurts Lights point wise. While not much damage, I often times would get a few kills or assists in by supporting the team once I have managed to secure a few cap points, at least in maps smaller than Alpine or Terra. You would find exposed internals and might have been able to grab a kill or two and get some component destructions etc. Because of this, Lights might as well finish a match with 0 Damage. It also increases the danger of being ganked upon while you try to uncap a cap point. Especially in smaller matches Heavies and Assaults can easily converge on you. This is obviously a downside, PGI should have upped the rewards instead of just increasing cap duration because they ALSO lowered the overall CBill earnings due to 12v12. You could almost call this a double nerf to the CBill earning abilities of cappers. - Another problem is the fight. Yes, it is Conquest and yes, I prefer it over Assault because the fight is not as stupid/static (normally) but seriously... the brawl might as well be considered obsolete. We had a few Lights taking care of Theta while I took care of Kappa alone, with cap acc... and damn, it felt at least like I was standing a full minute there. At this point you may need a lot more dedicated cappers because if you happen to fall behind, good luck uncapping and recapping the points to keep your team afloat. - And lastly I think the duration is too long or, and here comes a possible solution, the game too short: Increase the cap limit to 1000 or even 1250. The fun part in Conquest was that you would cap, brawl and maybe lose it and then the tide was turned and you would still be outcapped, resulting in match results akin to 745 vs. 750 etc. Granted, I have only done one proper Conquest match but there is no turning tides. With a reasonable lead in cap points, you might as well call "gg".
I'm not sure what discussion, if any, you want. it's all opinions about this game mode. I do agree with with your opinions, but I'm not sure what solutions should be put in. I don't like the new system, but i have changed to deal with it.
I'd like some feedback to my statements and yea, some sort of input/ideas to tweak Conquest because as it stands, it is not working as nicely and smooth as what we are used to. Or maybe people want to disagree and tell me that everything is better now, I don't know.
well man, thing is you aren't wrong. But until they fix the cappers getting the points and what-not they deserve, this is how its going to be. HOPEfully, they will push the rewards for capping forward and release it early like PGI likes to do sometimes. This is the whole reason i dont really play lights. I love to play em, but there's no bigger slap in the face to win the game for your team, just to not get rewarded at all for it. Not even a thank you usually. And now its even worse. But dont worry, in time you light players will be rewarded for your vigilance. What i DO NOT agree with is getting less c-bills and exp per match. Seriously, WTF. You do more damge and get more kills, only to receive LESS benefit for it? Isnt it harder to get those kills with more people shooting at you? again, what the effing fuck. If anything this patch just feels super rushed, bringing out what we knew was coming and wanted, only to not bring out what was needed to make it useful and fun.
I do have to agree with you Leonhart, They are giving the majority what they want and not what the entire community needs.
I find the new cap time problematic but I think I see an underlying reason for it; they are attempting to split furballs up by making people go and cap in groups of 2s, 3s and 4s. Working together increases the cap time (which is still fucking insanely slow) but it prevents rolling furballs that can insta-kill focused targets. It is not working out very well so far LOL People just don't cap as much and fight it out instead.
Two 'mechs with cap accelerators on a point still takes forever. It's painful to listen to your team get slaughtered while you desperately try to throw the tide of cap in your favor.
And that's the problem with this topic. he is basicly correct, and I cant find flaws in the argument. I do want them to change it a bit, but i don't think they should go to the old system... I would really like it if they had 12vs12 and 8vs8 options, but right now they don't have the server capacity to do that (not that i know their systems). I guess we will have to wait for them to patch it.
I agree with all of your points, but this is beating a dead horse. Its hard to find solutions when the problem is inherently due to people just not giving a fuck about capping, regardless of the rewards. I really hope PGI does come up with something for the people that enjoy playing Conquest. This is my personal view on it and why I stick with Assault. Im playing a game that involves piloting giant killing machines and I want to kill things while piloting said giant machines and not have to worry about capping an objective.
In 8v8 Assault was just a snipe fest. I do enjoy my killing machines but I like it when the battlefield is less static, which was given in Conquest due to the ever changing cap situation. Anyway, after mulling it over, I've thought about a possible fix: Return to the old cap speed in Conquest (leave Assault, the increased duration is good) but instead of making 750 points the limit, push it to 1200 or so. This would allow capping and yet gives time to brawl and maybe lessen the opposition force's numbers to a level that you can take the cap points over and then cover them, basically allowing you to turn the tide. Addendum: The match I was describing had 5 cappers, me included. And I had a cap acc. Don't say peole don't care about capping, because before the patch, my entire group of friends used to prefer Conquest and the capping mechanics.
Just a general observation I have noticed in pretty much all online games. I enjoy playing objectives, just not particularly in this game. I like your solutions, seem pretty legit. Maybe up the cap times, say 1/4th or less of the original value. Increased rewards and all that. It would be really great to see Conquest turn into a lance vs lance fight over objectives, with the last push for capping just an all out brawl of mechs that are beat up. Sigh, a guy can dream.
A guy can dream, yes, but that is kinda what I would like Conquest to be like... a few small skirmishes with support/reinforcements able to pull in if needed/if they are done with their small encounters... it forces you to think too... all lances split or maybe one lance only with 3 and the other going with 5? how to balance things, etc.
But here is the problem. People are starting to stick together more and more, because the cap time has increased. this means more mechs than a Lance, your going against 12 when you only have say a 4 man team trying to grab one point, and 8 are just going for the open cap points. It is really becoming an game of who can kill the most mechs in as little time as possible, and Not a game about the cap system. and this is where the LRM and Poptart meta comes into play, because some people like to play in brawler builds, but instead just get hit over and over again at range. these 2 meta type builds are doing some fantastic damage right now, but it really enforces the roles of light, heavy, and assault mechs, and not Mediums. If mediums can snipe, they can't do enough damage. or withstand the same damage a heavy can. If they can cap, they don't carry enough punch to keep enemy mechs off the point they are capping. my god, someone stop my ramblings. In any case, If we can get the cap times lowered, this lets mechs get into fights more often, and that is what we all want to see.
Yea, as I said... back to the previous cap times but upp the point limit if you feel that 12 v 12 make conquest too fast...
And give us some motherlovin' credit for it!!! What is it, 50 or 75XP and 10,000 C-Bills for a cap assist??
