Build Battles #2 - SHD vs. GRF - SRM brawling

I agree... this is like... a days worth of matches
Perhaps we should switch back to ONE build vs. ONE build. Instead of the general "which is best in BLANK category". The exception with the GRF is that i'm sure many are interested how both the 1N and 3M compare. So more of a Mech vs. Mech I suppose.

So, back to SHD vs. GRF. Anything else CAN be explored in future discussions and duels.

 

Isn't this build battle #2? I thought #1 was the Oxide and Huggie?

 

technically, corrected thread names.

 

Falconium and I completed the first duel last night. Here are the results:

SHD-2K Build 1 (only build) (3x SRM6+A, 3x MLas, 2x JJ, XL300)
GRF-3M Build 1 (4x SRM4+A, 2x MLas, 4x JJ, XL300)
GRF-3M Build 2 (4x SRM6, 1x MLas, 2x JJ, XL310)
GRF-1N Build 1 (3x SRM6+A, 3x MLas, 2x JJ, XL300)
GRF-1N Build 2 (3x SRM6+A, 3x MLas, 2x JJ, STD280)

The map order was:
River City Night
Viridian Bog
Forest Colony
Tourmaline Desert
HPG Manifold

Results:
Set 1: SHD-2K Build 1 vs. GRF-3M Build 1
SHD 3
GRF 2

Set 2: SHD-2K Build 1 vs. GRF-1N Build 1
SHD 1
GRF 4

Set 3: SHD-2K Build 1 vs. GRF-3M Build 2
SHD 2
GRF 3

Set 4: SHD-2K Build 1 vs. GRF-1N Build 2
SHD 0
GRF 5

Total:
SHD 6
GRF 14

I'd say about two thirds of the games were extremely close. Both mechs had open torsos and one shot from either mech was all it took to finish. With that said, we made a few observations for these match-ups in a 1v1:

• Many of the SHD-2K's advantages are lost in a 1v1, which is why these duels should always be taken with a grain of salt and never used to justify changes to the mechs. Notably, the SHD-2K is not able to control the battlefield in a 1v1. It has to brawl with a closing GRF who has greater range advantage. In a group environment, the SHD can bide it's time and really utilize it's slightly higher missiles much higher energy hardpoints. Attack from cover and never push into a full-brawl until the time is right or pushing with teammates. So I suppose one speculation is that the GRF-1N, especially with a STD engine, would make for a better front-line mech for a team push.
  
• SHD 25% torso yaw speed quirk was removed. The GRF retains its 10% torso yaw speed quirk. This was very noticeable when trying to avoid SRM volleys and then twisting to get a shot in. The GRFs faster turn speed in combination with its 50deg greater twist angle gave it a serious edge in a 1v1 environment. I was able to turn away from shots and shield with my left side easily in every situation and he was never out of my reach for return fire.
  
• At range, the SHD-2K has an advantage with it's high-mounted MLas. This advantage was neutralized on open ground where hardpoint locations did not come into play. In addition, when closing from a distance, the GRF is able to get in the first shot because of its extended SRM range over 300m.
  
• Both the GRF and SHD have high mounted Missile tubes (except one set on the 3M which is near the waist) so they were both able to sneak in shots while navigating around terrain.
• The high alpha of the 3x MLas and 3x SRM6+A has a definite advantage in a 1v1. The strength to strip all the armor and crit a torso in one shot was brutal. The Griffin-3M Build 1 was at a disadvantage in this 1v1 match-up. However, the extremely high alpha strength of the 3M build 2 was comparable. Each alpha was much hotter because of heat scaling, but it was manageable considering the build has more DHS than the other builds.
• The GRF-1N with a STD engine is a complete mismatch against an XL brawler in a 1v1. My left torso and arm simply absorbed massive amounts of damage that would have otherwise killed an XL build. I lost my left torso several times as well as my right arm. The survivability of the STD engine on a GRF just wasn't fair. In a group environment it comes with many trade-offs though: 3 less DHS, 1 ton less ammo, slower mech, less armor (but this is more than offset by the STD engine).
  
• Even with a slower STD engine, the GRF twist angle is still constant benefit over the SHD. In addition, and this is just silly, the 10% twist speed quirk mean the STD280 GRF still has a faster twist speed than the XL300 SHD (111deg/s vs 109deg/s). So really the only downside to running a STD280 in a GRF vs. an XL300 SHD is the overall max speed difference of 6.5kph.
• GRF arms are huge. Much better shields than the SHD. The bicep area on the arms are much wider to protect the side torsos. This in combination with the insane twist angle means you can always put that giant arm between your opponent and your torso when you need to.

Perhaps we will test the SHD-2K Build 2 with same STD280 engine, for science! But we definitely could not fit it in this session that had already lasted 2 hours.

Overall this duel was a lot of fun. Brawling for a couple hours straight with no other BS is a blast. Can't wait to do more!

P.S. It's difficult for me to imagine how much better the WVR-7K will be vs. these builds... those quirks are so strong for an already strong build (3x SRM6+A, 3x MLas). Really insane on paper with the 20% SRM6 cooldwon and range as well as a 12.5% energy range to top it off. Brutal!
I hate to throw the SHD-2K further under the 1v1 bus, be we have to at least do a 5 round fight against this beast and see how it fairs. Would also be nice to have another pilot or two to test it against the Griffins. @Vergere?

 

Thread necro to ask if any duels were done with the WVR-7K? Also, I'm curious to know how the new ECM Griffin would stack up. My personal preference on the 2N is to skip the lasers and go 4xSRM6+A with an XL300, so that you can twist away faster by not having to wait for the lasers to burn.

 

We had talked about potentially revisiting once quirks were settle in a bit. The 7K has great quirks, like the KTO-19, so we were more interested in a closer match-up being the SHD-2K and the GRF-1N. We could open this one back up and do some science or perhaps start a new thread for the GRF-2N and the WVR-7K.

What do you think that match-ups should be? GRF-3M vs GRF-2N? WVR-7K vs SHD-2K/GRF-1N?

 

I'd be interested in WVR-7K vs SHD-2K. I don't think I have the Shadowhawk (?), but I'd gladly pilot the Wolvie.

Here are two comparable builds:




Since we're going for the brawl, we might use SPLas instead of MLas.
And/or chose to run STD engine, for a slower but maybe more tactical fight:




(if it was for a "true" 1v1 I wouldn't load 5 tons of ammo, but mount more DHS, but we use to fight with "PUG ready" mechs, not duel optimized)


I also can pilot the Griffin-3M.

 

We also may have underestimated the power of the peripheral vision allowed by the Griffin's dome cockpit. Peripheral vision really helps in a brawl.