Arty strike / Air strike... the REAL meta

Hi all.
Back when they boosted the damage from these strikes it was a way to get people to buy them thus creating a cbills sink. It quickly became the go to move by upper end teams in competitive matches as well as it trickling down the regular matches becoming the go to move for many a pilot in those matches as well.

My question is...in a game where the emphasis is supposed to be stompy robot on stompy robot crime has the game now become primarily focused on arty/air strikes as apposed to mech +pilot vs. mech +pilot?

PS.
This isn't about whether its fair or not. I'm not qqing. My question is more along the lines of is this the right direction for the game in its current form?

 

I would say it isn't that bad.

I use Arty and Airstrike on almost every mech. They seem to be timed enough that it isn't a constant rain. I mean you can time it sure but it isn't like 20 of them going off at once insta-killing your team.

 

First, a disclaimer: I use them in every mech I run and many of them I run double strikes. I have both improved air and improved artillery strikes as well.

I like them more for tactical uses than doing pure damage though. Whenever I try to get pure damage out of them, I end up hurting myself. Obviously their ideal use is to be dropped on a cluster of mechs. Rightfully so, its either hard to sneak up on them, or its incredibly risky. Everyone sees big mechs coming, and lights run the risk of dismemberment or death trying to get the perfect strike.

Here are my favourite uses of the strikes:
1. Self-defense: Nearly all of my air strikes are used to deter mechs from shooting at me or chasing me any further. If I make a bad push, theres nothing better to get mechs to stop shooting you than a red flare just infront of them.

2. Finishing legged mechs in skirmishes: Most effective if using your artillery strike for this. If I leg an opponent in no-mans-land, I'd prefer not to stay there to finish him off. The longer I spend in these danger areas, the more likely I'll get myself killed. Arty lets me scamper off to safety, leaving the legged mech for dead.

3. Resource defense: everyone knows this one.

4. Padding xp: This is for mechs that have sub-optimal builds and you don't want to play them. Good way to make the grind quicker.

 

I should rename the "Club of 1000+" threads to "Club of 1K+ without Arty".

I'm still no Arty.User because imo you are cheating your highscores. It's far more honorable to get your scores from your build/weaponloadout + pilotskills.

 

LOL WAIT WHAT
...
ppl are crutching arty strikes now?
...
thats what the meta has devolved into???????
...
thats fucking hilarious.
...and also sad... holy shit... this poor game

 

Yeah i find it sad too. In almost every match it's raining Arty everywhere every minute. Chickens!!!!!

 

You can turn a 500 damage game into an 800 damage or even 1000 damage game if you rain the artillery and airstrikes at the exact right moment when a group of assaults are standing around clustered up in a choke point. In order to do this you have to give up a few module slots so you don't get seismic or coolshot or whatever else you want to put on the mech. You do have to sacrifice to utilize it and it also isn't always effective (launched on invisible wall? enemy walks out of the AoE? Anything can happen).

I would call that maximizing damage potential and not crutching. But, everyone is gonna say what they wanna say.

 

I believe Arty + Air strikes are viable tools used on the battlefield< I use them when needed, though they could be carried out a bit more realistically. Artillery would be an installment, vehicle or other, somewhere on the map that would have to be set up to actually fire on coordinates from a spotter (Mech Pilot) It should be an attackable asset, but it isn't, and never will be. Airstrikes happen about how they should, but again should be an attackable asset.... won't happen.

As for it being the right direction for the game in it's current form? It is what it is, and hopefully the coders at PGI are working on more important things, like making it more than just Crysis in mechs..... or maybe that would be better than what we have now.

 

I measure the direction of the game based on what I see from it when I play. Not the extremes like competitive play or newb play, but the regular play. And right now what I see most of the time is red smoke followed by red smoke. Again if this is the direction the developers want to take the game then I have to just get used to it and change my strategy accordingly.

I think one solution might be a hard cap on the number of strikes that can be used per match. That way the emphasis switches back to mechs killing mechs. It also becomes more strategic to use an arty/airstrike as apposed to dropping it as soon as the timer is off cool down over and over.

 

Amen! I use at least an Arty in every mech and Arty/Air combo in most. They are not only excellent weapons systems, moreover, they are one of the best ways for a lighter weight mech to escape. Once you pop smoke, most people lose interest pretty quick.

I do not find this a sad devolution of the game at all. These are useful tactics used by every modern military. It does get out of hand in some matches where there are 40+ strikes over the course of a match, however, I feel the timing delay is set to a very reasonable rate, however, once they Lobby system is setup, I do feel it would be nice to limit each team to a certain number of each strike. EG: 4 Artillery, 4 Air - Then give players a popup to select another module if their team's quota is filled.

 

Mike, here's reality:

If Arty strikes are as prevalent in meta as described here... then that tells me that they've [PGI] buffed arty to the point that it's currently at, due to the difficulty and monotony of breaking up camping/sniping groups that sit tight.

To me this says the games almost 2 years old, and the meta hasn't even moved in the slightest. If you have to use consumes to break up day0 tactics, then yeah there's issues in the meta and maturation of the game itself.

I have yet to see people posting insane tactics for this game, and they likely never will, even though it's a squad based sim fps. Battlefield has more organic tactics in play by orders of magnitude, utilized by all even in 'regular' play, and that game has also been mega-watered down. It is what it is.

Yikes; that's what I would really say. Am I wrong. Arty Strikes being spammed speaks volumes about the meta and what type of positioning groups are using in game, whether tactically or just pugnaturally... just read the anecdotes above.

 

It is true that, at times, the Strike Spam gets out of hand. I would like to see a cap per team. However, I do enjoy Strikes being useful tools now and MOST games do go overboard, but, 10 damage was quite useless.

I tend to agree with Soy's point of PGI's solution/attempt to shift the meta. I'm not 100% against it, however, I can definitely see his point of how it speaks to the game/devs.

Chatt.

 

Id love for arty/airstrike/UAV etc to be a commander tool and that there would be a 13th player per team thats just on the map screen and can give his team tactical info and when requested, drop a arty or UAV with cool downs etc ofc.

 

I agree, Soy, that the MECH Meta hasn't moved in the slightest; poptarts and campers are rampant in the game and that meta will never change. Not so long as there are ways in which people can build poptart mechs. Why would anyone want to venture out into the open or take a clearing when they can conceal themselves behind a hill with 2-3 of their buddies and reduce their risk to almost nothing. That is, was, always will be, the ultimate in smart play. It isn't GOOD play but it is smart. Reduce your risk while maximizing damage potential to your enemy.

But that wasn't really the question in the Op.

Arty and Airstrike are a band-aid solution to help counter poptarting and shift the PLAY Meta (what you correctly call Day0) but it is a meta that is available to EVERYONE. Any single mech can take one, or both, strikes into combat. People choose NOT to because they want their coolshot or their zoom or their long range targeting and target info gathering, whatever, wont allow them room on the mech. My Raven carries both Airstrike AND Artillery and I absolutely use them to break up static assault mech groupings; whether they be poptarts or not.

The question in the OP, as I understand it, was are Arty and Airstrikes the new meta? Not how PGI has developed a game that is maturing at a rate even Wolverine would be jealous of. This game has barely eeked forward in the last 22+ weeks since the Lunch Party back in September.

As for supreme tacticians and strategy play being utilized in MWO? Never really gonna happen. Well maybe yes and no. Some maps are poorly designed and don't really allow for it; take Alpine Peaks for example. Alpine Peaks is whatever team spawns closest to I9-I10. That team gets the high ground hill quickly enough and digs in it is extremely EXTREMELY difficult to dig them out. Going around the side? No, won't work cause they can pick you off as you move, charging up the middle? Nope, won't work because the will beat on you as you come up the hill. The best you can do is hope your light mechs can use Arty and Airstrike to weaken the enemy up before you charge up the hill and focus fire them to death.

That's my 2.5 cbills on the matter.

 

The problem I have with Arty and Air is that it's a weighted effect. It is WAY more effective against slow moving mechs and PUGS. PUGS cannot communicate quick enough to tell his buddy he has smoke behind him. By the time you type it in, it's already dropping. In Com drops Arty and Air aren't nearly as dangerous as everyone calls smoke when they see it. This can easily be solved by doing two things:

1) Install a Betty warning. Warning incoming Artillery / Air strike.. If you are in the radius
2) Slow down the time from drop to attack.

This will get people moving, and if they don't you rack up your damage and kills still. It's just retarded you can drop smoke behind a mechs feet and they get pounded by it because they don't see it coming until it's to late, which is pretty much right away if your a slow assault who has to back up, see it, stop, then run away.

I personally don't like it used in MWO. Air and Arty strikes in the books where WAY more effective than this, so effective it utterly destroyed things. This single shot crap is just a way to get you to spend Cbills, slowing your grind, to get you to get premium time or spend MC.

 

I agree with both of these, especially the Betty warning.

[quote author=FuzzyBunny link=topic=5916.msg38593#msg38593 date=1394708498]
I personally don't like it used in MWO. Air and Arty strikes in the books where WAY more effective than this, so effective it utterly destroyed things. This single shot crap is just a way to get you to spend Cbills, slowing your grind, to get you to get premium time or spend MC.
[/quote]
I suppose this all depends on what you are grinding for, C-Bills or XP. In this aspect you can consider it a trade-off C-Bills for the potential to increase damage output, and in turn XP.

 

I can easily lose money on a loss when in the SuperChicken. I also refuse to buy more premium time until I see progress in the game beyond tweaks. Some games you make money. Some games you lose money. Ah well.

 

You pay C-Bills to do damage without gaining any heat.

 

As a new player I've only done PUG matches and the rate of arty and airstrike has gone WAY up over the last week or so.

I don't like it because I can't afford it (probably #1 reason) and if I don't see the smoke I take damage without the ability to avoid it or hit back.

This game has a steep learning curve and increasing the amount of arty and airstrike will only increase the slope.

I let my 12yo play on my account sometimes and he gets absolutely enraged when hit (or killed) with arty or airstrike. It's actually pretty funny and makes me rethink my position. The comedy might be worth it.

 

They had a tournament a week or so ago in which damage, kills and assists were a major factor. The easiest way to boost those numbers was with Arty and Airstrike. Once people realized the effectiveness of those two strikes they just kept on using them as a matter of habit now.

As for the comment about spending cbills to increase damage potential without any heat I don't see the relevance? Coolshot increases damage potential by lowering your heat instantly allowing you to lean on your weapons harder, Seismic increases your ability to track the enemy without increasing giving your own position away, long range targeting increases your range which may exceed that of your enemy now. All these modules allow for a benefit at the cost of cbills (some are a one time fee others are on a per use basis).

They are also available to EVERYONE which means I have no other advantage over any other player. It is your CHOICE not to take those modules and if that is the case then you live with the results.