Tier 3... Is pugging worth it???

Because I am actually playing now, I finally made it to Tier 3... Actually that was a few weeks ago.

It seems that, since I made that jump, it is much harder to PUG.... let me explain.

Towards the end of Tier 4 I was experiencing actual teamwork in PUG drops. Calling out targets, focus fire, using actual tactics, etc. I mean the level of teamwork was nowhere near dropping with my RWR guys, but it was there.

I figure if I'm dropping with my Bro's, I should be doing it in at least an elited mech, so I like to level in PUG. But, since I started playing Tier 3, that little bit of teamwork that made PUG drops productive and even enjoyable at times, is all but gone. Comms are silent. Calling out targets seems to do no good because everyone just does their own thing regardless, and the matches seem lopsided much more frequently.

Is there something I am missing here?

I would have expected a higher skill level... which I am seeing from individual pilots, I guess, but the drop in teamwork was really unexpected. It's making it almost useless to PUG at this point.

I have no problems being overtaken by a better team, or having my a$$ handed to me by a better player... That's actually fun, gives me something to work towards, but being consistently routed dropping pug with 1 to 3 kills to your teams name??

It has me wondering if it's even worth it?

Anyway.... chime in with your thoughts, criticism or whatever

Cheers,

.: The Ski Dog :.

 

Ive been pug-ging since Tier 4 and now Im in Tier 2 and I can tell you that there's some time where you will have a team that make use of the VOIP and call out target and stuff which happens to me A LOT in Tier 3 but now in Tier 2, that rarely happen, if it happens, most likely the team will just ignore it

At some point, no one talks and just follow whoever is leading Win or lose, thats another case.

 

No, this is more prevalent than that.

 

Currently high end of Tier 3. Needing to get into 2 quick. I hear more internet spewing hatred on comms than teamwork, more try-hard, solo-effort players, more bitching up a storm because the team sucks so bad that they got out of position and were steamrolled by the entire enemy team... I actually haven't played much in the last couple weeks because the negative atmosphere was getting me down. This is why I don't console game online...

Certain times of day you can run into a few good PUGs in a row, working together, calling strats, focusing fire... But it's rare. And only seems to be Wednesday-Friday nights, about 8pm-12am EST, or late afternoon on weekends...

From my understanding, MM will pull players from one tier above and one below you. So if you're playing when less Tier 2/3 players are online, you run the risk of getting an entire group of newer players... (from my understanding)

 

Ski Dog, your original post took the thoughts right out of my head. I don't get it, and agree with you completely. It's like tier 3 is some type of weird limbo.

Maybe all the players who were doing very well in tier 4 and moved quickly through it, got full of themselves and thought they were better pilots (resulting in the lone wolf play style, thinking they can accomplish too much on their own), now upon reaching tier 3, where generally there are better players, they aren't doing as well, and since they believe themselves to be superior, lay the blame on their team.

They have to relearn the value of teamwork (which will take time, and it's kinda like almost like being a noob again). I remember when I started playing I was always going off on my own trying to take down big guys in a light, and other such behavior, until I realized I had to stay with the team, and found it to provide much better results. Also the inflated ego may result in the not listening to orders or strat calling recommendations, thinking to themselves, "dont tell me what to do, I know what I'm doing." or them wanting to be the one in command.

I think tier 3 is kinda of a hump for most people, who climbed the ranks and gained a decent amount of skill in piloting, but need to be reminded that even though they are getting better, they may not be as good as the think they are, and need a refresher on the importance of teamwork. And there is still much to be learned in tier 3, in the aspect of tricks of the trade that may give you an advantage, or in mech building, and definitely in team coordination and execution of strategies.

All in all, I think the rise in tiers and gain of skills, has led some players to be closed minded to new play-styles and ideas. Let's all keep an open mind as we never stop learning. If I sound preachy or high and mighty, I admit that I have noticed some of the potential problems I brought up being found to some extent in my own gameplay, that I realized about myself. This is all theoretical BTW, so I might be totally wrong.

 

To be honest I think Tier 3 is that weird place in the Ven Diagram where good and bad pilots meet. The reason I say this is because ELO is based on WINs and not actual skill. If you PUG with some amazing pilots that are also PUG'n and they carry then guess what? You move up. Now you have shit pilots in a higher tier mixing it up with better pilots who may have lost a few rounds due to crap luck with team mates. It is sort of like the Melting Pot; always in a state of flux. Because it is the Detroit of the MWO world nobody wants to really put the effort in, they just want to get out.

 

I ran into this a bit last night. I was in my super chicken, and decided to run ECM cover for my lance instead of sniping, when I got a call across VoIP from the Jenner in our Lance asking for help from me. Not a build for furball fighting which is what he was doing, so I picked a spot to give support and started to fire LL's into his opponent (spider) from around 300 meters off.... I made the mistake of chasing the spider into a firing line without the Jenner following me (stupid noob mistake on my part) but when all was said and done I got berated for leaving him in his time of need.... Putts!

 

Ehem... I believe the quote is, "Fukum."

PUG matches are rough. Even more so when you're not in a 2-man or more... Otherwise, fuck the randoms and their endless whining about "other people's" mistakes when they die of their own foolishness.

It's ridiculous. Hence my hesitation... I'll log on tonight for a while, but if it's the same bitch-fest of childishness - I'm all set, thanks!

 

I pugged and grouped my way through T4 and it was a grind. It took FOREVER to get through. I've mainly pugged on T3 and I am making progress much faster.

I feel like, generally speaking, T3 is much more coordinated and people are more self-sufficient. While the players seem to have a better grasp on the game individually, they also work well in a group. I would say 85% of the games I play have some form of communication and cooperation. I always attempt to at least call targets of priority when I play and we usually end out on top.

 

I can definitely confirm this phenomenon, having just hit it myself. It's not unique to MWO, and Michael hit it on the head. For MWO, Tier 3 is "ELO Limbo" (or Hell, if you prefer) where the individual skill and teamwork disconnect occurs. You get more technically skilled players that will be stuck there functionally forever because they take the mindset that so long as THEY played flawlessly, they should have won and everyone else screwed up. I've had multiple..."conversations" that I had finally gotten used to not needing to have tearing apart someone's bitching to point out that no, they were in fact the problem. And really, in the hypothetical mirror universe where they weren't, their approach to fixing their teammates' behaviors is counterproductive, so if they ACTUALLY want to change it they should try 1) Communication and 2) Not being an A-Hole. THEN both parties can work on the whole 'being right' thing.

So much hate. They exist everywhere, in every game. On a related note:
http://www.cad-comic.com/cad/20060823

 

I'm curious at the ranking system as I was into just into rank 3 by the time I finished my cadet. I didn't at all find tier 3 difficult as I seemed to be fighting mostly pilots like me.

Just made tier 2 and its a different beast as you often get unbalanced teams with players that are very well known on one side and the other with mostly non outfit players. My kill total definitely plummeted as people are much better at protecting themselves, knowing the map and reacting! On the other hand if someone calls and organises tier 2 people react and act accordingly. I just did 5 drops and we won 4. I called in three of those as I flanked in my blackjacks and had good views. We won as everyone near me followed my calls or maybe followed the ones that could understand me.

I have to ask though - those of you saying there isn't any coordination - are you yourselves stepping up to call?

 

Not sure what's going on in the lower tiers, but i guess it's like this -> (?)

Btw the new MM is working with PSR Points, not the old "ELO"/W-L Algorithm. I had many games where my Team Lost, but my PSR-meter said "=". So you need to get enough Teamplay-/Matchscores to get up the tiers, Wins has less impact than before.

If you haven't read this, do it to understand what PGI actually intended with the tier system: http://mwomercs.com/forums/topic/210140-some-clarification-about-tiers-and-psr/

 

Far too many matches IME calls are outright ignored no matter who makes them. It would be one thing if the other player at least communicated "I don't speak that language" or "Let's try this instead", but rather than radio silence = agreement, radio silence = gamble. *shrug* I've been managing to keep improving, which is what I really care about.

 

After a little while, I'm afraid VOIP went off and is staying that way. Life is too short to listen to the stream of drivel that seems to dominate it, so its TS etc only for me.

 

As long as you never complain and follow everyone else's lead that's fine.. if not it makes you the unproductive problem...

 

No, I don't accept its the problem, its the result of the problem - i.e.unmoderated chat

As for following everyone else's lead well it depends - I wouldn't follow 39,999 Lemmings off a cliff just to round it out . Certainly I'll interact with whatever the furball is doing if there is one, though that doesn't always happen ofc

Also in a PUG group my expectations are suitably low though I fond quite often you get invited to join other units' TS/ Ventrilo etc or just get random ninja invites to groups off my friends list

 

So basically you're like the Stermy guy in my last three battles who never used voice, solo show boated and never communicated then raged at his own team at the end of each match?

Just maybe without blaming the team for essentially losing...