DRG-1C Slow Beef (1x AC10, 4x MLas, 1x SSRM2, AMS, STD 240)

I swapped a standard 240 engine from an Awesome for the 300, freeing up plenty of tonnage. Upgraded the heat sinks and structure.

Primary weapon is the arm-mounted AC10, secondary brawling weapons - Streak SRM2 and 4 Medium Lasers. Armour is pretty much maxed. Added a BAP, AMS and CASE system for additional benefits.

I personally prefer a fire support role over a brawling role - particularly with a slower engine like this. However, this build should provide eminent utility duties in a well-rounded lance.

 

This is a Gauss-equipped version of the same basic 'Mech design. Dropped the SSRM-2 and CASE, moved the AMS ammo to one of the legs. Might need to sacrifice something for some more primary weapon ammo as 20 shots won't typically cut it.

 

Not really a fan of this build...
1) Dragons survive through speed. The only reason you would want a STD engine instead of an XL is if you want to put an AC/20 on the torso of the Flame, and even then it's not as good as you could get on other mechs. If you want a heavy mech with a STD engine, you can get more speed AND firepower on a Cataphract than you can on a Dragon.
2) In line with the above, having a 300 XL engine will not only give you more speed, but the weight savings gives you a lot more firepower. Your builds are woefully short on ammo (2 tons of ammo isn't enough for a sustained fight).
3) AMS, while nice, takes up 1.5 tons that could be devoted to speed or firepower, while countering a weapon that is very underpowered right now. Very few people are running LRMs, and those that do aren't hurting much with them.

If you want to do fire support, I'd recommend a 300 XL with a couple of large lasers and the Gauss. However, the Dragon is best in the skirmisher role, going around the edge of the brawl and shooting in. Something like a Cataphract or Jagermech would be much better suited for the DFS role.

 

Thanks for your feedback. Sorry that you're not keen - I can see why given your comments.

I note that I tend to use less ammo than others have mentioned. Perhaps I am more selective about taking shots, and engage in lower intensity fights? Or perhaps I just don't live as long as they do? :unsure:

I'm working with the engines I have - in this case a 240. I disagree that speed is crucial for survival for the Dragon. You need more sense about positioning, but the survival difference based on being hit in an 81kph mech and a 60kph mech is not big in my experience.

I am in agreement with AMS - it looks nice to have, but in game-play doesn't prove as useful as other things.

I have never really enjoyed XL engines. Perhaps that is personal bias (old school player comfortable with 3025 mech designs). Also I cannot currently afford a new engine - so I'm designing without. This is not an optimal design - just my current one.

 

For the fast-moving mechs, primarily lights and mediums, but also the Dragon, the XL engine is great. The extra speed, armor, and/or firepower vastly outweighs the loss of survivability. Dragons in particular have small side torsos, but right now the general strategy on most mechs is just to shoot center torso, anyway. I figure the survivability loss of having an XL engine in the current environment is akin to the loss of AMS, except you get a lot more by having an XL than you get by not having AMS.

81 kph is the bottom threshold. You can get that thing over 90 kph without speed tweak, 100 kph with, using Gauss and 4xML. That helps you utilize cover much better, escape hot situations, and also gives you more utility regarding objectives.

I'm guessing your low ammo usage is because either you are not near enough the brawl to utilize your ammo (or spend a lot of time behind cover), you are taking too long to aim your shots, or you are simply not surviving the fight. I try to do 3-4 tons of ammo minimum if I only have one ballistic weapon. If I'm boating ballistics I can get away with less tons per weapon, because stuff tends to die faster when you hit it with higher pinpoint damage.

 

Twenty KPH is a vast diffence...the Dragon Chassy isn't so tough that it won't benifit greatly from speed. The one Dragon I currently use that only moves the base Eighty KPH is a lot slower then I wish it was. Never forget that speed equals maneuverability, bigger faster engine means your torso and everything else respond quicker.

That's my two cents,

 

I disagree regarding speed. Speed isn't always everything, even with a Dragon, so long as your positioning is correct. My current build goes at 71.6Kph (78.7 Tweaked) with engine tweak and it's just enough to get heavier mechs turning in circles. I would understand if your firepower wasn't up to scratch but my build is.

My loadout is 1 Gauss Rifle, 2 Large Lasers, 1 SRM 6, 1 AMS and I've managed to max out my Armour apart from the legs and a tiny bit on the left and right torso. 4 tonnes of Gauss Ammo, 1 ton of SRM ammo, 1 ton of AMS ammo. Giving me a grand firepower of 42 and a heat efficiency of 43% (50% when you've unlocked the Heat efficiency thingy).

I couldn't possibly fit anymore weapons and decided to substitute a little of the left and right torso Armour for a AMS system, seeing that neither the right or left gets hit much. I've been completely and utterly nackered by players using LRMS with Artemis and I've found AMS to completely obliterate that threat. The problem with Artemis systems is that it targets your centre torso and with any mech, especially the dragon, you can't afford to take damage there. Not to mention it protects your teammates in close support.

I'm a bit selfish and I probably wont show my build fully but Shyner I'll send you it if you like.

 

@Quadro - Thanks for the offer - but I can probably recreate it from your description without bothering you for it. It looks as if my expeditious use of my spare 240 engine has not won many fans. If I had the CBills for an XL, then I might consider it.

 

At worst, I'd trade your AMS for CASE (to protect from the Gauss Rifle exploding), and pack in an additional ton of ammo.

Or you could drop BAP, AMS and a HS to drop in a STD-260 Engine and an extra ton of Gauss ammo.
http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/mechlab#i=11&l=ea3de3b69649b1a497311acb9d24364fe83e4862

You'll actually have more heat dissipation with this build, since you're trading a chassis HS for an engine HS. The extra ton of Gauss ammo is placed in the head because it will be depleted first, leaving your arm's gauss ammo to absorb crit hits.

 

Archwright, I think it's been stated that the first 10 double heat sinks are double, and all the rest are 1.4x. It doesn't matter if they're in the engine or not.

Quadro, you are selfish. We're here to share our builds so we can grow as a community. If you don't want to share a build, don't say you have it and don't want to share it, that makes you look arrogant and petty.

If you have a problem with LRMs, I would suggest that it is not the LRMs fault. Yes, AMS can help, but I have no problem using hills and buildings to completely negate LRM damage without AMS. That, and LRMs don't do much damage right now anyway. You said it yourself - you're not getting hit side torso much. I think the extra 20 kph would really help you use cover better.

If you want to play something moving at 70 KPH, you can fit more firepower into a Cataphract at that speed.

 

Hm... I've heard the exact opposite, that double heatsinks in the engine (even the bonus slot ones) count as 2.0, where as the rest count as 1.4. Time to spelunk through the MWO Command Chair posts.

 

I never said I have a problem with LRMs. I just so happened to have enough space/tonnage to squeeze a AMS in. I'm well aware on how to use buildings/hills etc to protect myself but that's looking from a ideal perspective. You're never full proof and having that extra bit of protection can mean life or death sometimes, not just for you, but your teammates as well.

My DRG-5N is tweaked at almost 80kph which is almost the speed of the trail mech DRG-5N(C) which isn't bad at all. I've out flanked and out manoeuvred much slower mechs countless times. But it isn't always about being hard to hit or running circles around your enemy that is important (don't get me wrong it's a perfectly viable tactic). It's sometimes about having enough speed to be where you want when you want and having the firepower to make it worthwhile.

Cataphracts can rarely achieve this without substituting firepower for speed. I very easily move casually ahead of most if not all Cataphracts I've ran alongside. As far as I'm concerned my build is a perfect balance and I'm quite regularly out flanking lumbering mechwarriors without having to do hit and runs. The firepower on this mech is quite substantial.

I'm not trying to lecture you, I'm just trying to get you to see it from my perspective. I get very good match results regularly with this build.

You're right, I am selfish as I said. I'm probably being petty as well. So here's my build. (I'm sorry for some reason I thought I was in the DRG-5N section, but this build will work for 1C also.)

 

You could do a Catphract 2X with a 300 XL engine (just slightly slower than the Dragon with 265 XL...304 would be equal speed), Endo-Steel, and 416 STD armor, and have 38 tons to play with. The Dragon build you have, after Endo-Steel, Engines, and Armor has 34.5 tons to play with, based on your loadout. So you can actually get a little more out of the Cataphract at these speeds.

The issue here is that you're sacrificing a lot of speed for not much gain in firepower. It's not just about staying behind heavies; it's about keeping lights in front of you, and being able to provide something that can cover objectives fairly well. Running a slow engine on a Dragon just turns you into a Cataphract Lite. I learned this when I looked at the 1X build that included 5 MLs and an AC/20...that was faster than my Flame with 4 MLs and AC/20. That's when I abandoned my FlameC20 build (which used a 250 STD engine) to go back to a 4xLL boat with a 350 XL.

To sum up: if you want to play a 70-80 kph powerhouse, the Cataphract gives you more firepower. If you want to play a Dragon, speed is king, and a 300 XL is the minimum I would suggest. If you want a 70-80 kph powerhouse Dragon, you're not optimizing to the level you could.

 

Agree to disagree. The Dragon is a really underrated mech and regardless of what build you think is right I'm having a field day with this one.

 

I'm not saying the Dragon is bad. I'm saying at these speeds the Cataphract is better. You can get it going the same speed with more armor and still have more tons to devote to firepower or special equipment, and they generally have more hardpoints.

The Dragon plays like a medium mech. It's probably my favorite chassis that I've played so far. It is a very versatile mech. Need to bring some firepower to an objective? Nothing brings ballistic weapons and armor to the fight like a Dragon that outpaces Hunchbacks and most Centurions. Need something to flank an assault group? The Dragon can position faster than most mediums and dish out more tons of firepower than some Lights weigh total. Need something to go toe-to-toe with an Atlas? My Dragons take those hits better than a medium mech.

Take away the speed and you've lost what makes the Dragon so great - the versatility. You're basically playing Cataphract Lite.

The way MechWarrior (not just MWO) is built, each weight has a sort of optimal speed. A 50-ton mech moving over 130 kph, for example, has less tons available than a 30-ton mech moving 150; but put them both at around 110-115 kph, and the Medium will have much more weight to play with. The same applies to the Dragon. Once you get below a certain speed, the bigger mechs can achieve that speed while retaining more free weight to play with.

At MechSpecs, it is encouraged to have fun and play what works for you. However, we are also here to min/max and figure out what works best, through a combination of experience, math, and advice. Your experience is that this build works. The math says that you could do this exact build on a Cataphract 2X, with 112 more armor (wow, I didn't even factor in that you had the armor reduced by 100 in my calculations, that makes the gap even bigger) and still have 3.5 tons to play with. Bigger engine means more heat sinks can be stored in the engine, to help combat the heat of 2xLLs. If this works on the Dragon, why wouldn't it work on the Cataphract?

 

So fundamentally there are two design camps here - one where speed is prioritised over armament and a second philosophy looking at more balanced armament with speed being a secondary consideration. I can see pros and cons to both. Either way we agree that the DRG-1C chassis is ripe for an XL engine because of the massive CT providing protection for the smaller side torsos.

Thanks for the debate - it is insightful and educational.

 

Well, it's always a balance of speed and firepower. The Dragon is just better balanced on the higher end of speed. I'm actually working on a chart that shows the free weight available for each total weight in-game with the engine required to reach a certain speed. The X coordinates are free weight, Y coordinates are available speeds, and then each line is a different Mech (broken into 25 tons, 30 tons, etc). I will have two lines per mech - one with STD engines one with XL engines. This will let me look at a build and say "hmm....90 kph, I have the same free weight at 96 kph on a different mech, I might as well go with the other mech".

Granted I'm not factoring in Endo-Steel or Ferro-Fibrous, but generally that's going to be maybe a half-ton difference unless you're comparing an Awesome to a Hunchback.

 

A primary role for Dragons is flanking and not as a 'Mech of the line. Easy to build a real left or right-handed 'Mech to specialise in a particular flank too. What I mean is that if you have heavier weapons on the left arm, you should favour the left flank so you can get your lead arm with heavier weapons around cover first. Speed first I guess. Otherwise it's just another sub-par heavy.

 

I like this build.. but i would make some tweaks. Replacing the SSRM for a SRM6, and having a larger Engine for more speed:



Alternate with AMS and more Armor:






Blagg