Jagermech impressions

No disagreement at all. I simply meant I would go out of my way to hunt these mechs down because of how easy they pop

 

They also force you to target them by having a lot of firepower. It's sort of how Splat Cats used to be (and still kind of are) and why I will usually go after Stalkers before Atlai. They might be easy to take down, but if you ignore them, or if they play a little defensive and come in after the brawl has started, they can do a lot of damage.

 

Jagermech is a long range support setup...Gauss and LRMS or maybe PPCs and AC5s at a medium range type oh thing.

 

I have this temptation, because of it's hardpoint configuration, of loading a lot of guns on this mech, heavy guns. And then mount an XL engine to spare some tonnage.
It looks it works for dual AC/20, but I tried another chassis yesterday and outch, with XL engine I ended with a 0.25 K/D ratio. So I lowered the weapons and mounted a standard engine, it worked better. I've yet to be killed with this config, but most of the time I end the game with a side torso destroyed, telling myself "see, you might be dead now"

 

I think when you get to the Heavy level (not including Dragons, because they are just big Mediums IMHO...although including Hunchbacks because they play like a Heavy), XL vs. STD is more of a debate. With Assaults, it's pretty much understood by most that XL is too much of a liability, and with Lights and Mediums you need the speed of an XL to be effective. Luckily for me I've avoided that gray area (played Spider, Trebuchet*, and Dragons** with XLs, and Stalker with STD) so far.

I'm not sure what the right answer for the Jagermech is, because I think getting the STD engine and downplaying the weapons takes away from what the Jagermech is: a glass cannon (cannon being somewhat literal, as it has cannons). Epikt, I'm curious to see the two builds side-by-side that you were using, and which one you found more effective. I do know that the more dangerous your spec is (both danger to the enemy via high power and danger to yourself via lower armor, speed, and/or XL engines), the better pilot you need to be to make it work, and the better the enemy pilot the more dangerous to yourself it is. Although with the propensity for people to aim center mass and take out center torsos first, I question if the XL engine is that much of a liability...

*I actually had someone ask if my Trebuchet moving at 133.6 kph was using an XL engine. "Yeah, I fit a 375 STD engine on a Trebuchet" was my smart aleck response.
**My Flame uses a STD engine to fit the AC/20, it has nothing to do with the survivability debate.

 

Also: Headshots. 40 dmg to the face with minimal convergence issues is a sight to see.

Hills, convergence, headshots, etc. is also why I tend mount big, nasty energy weapons on the 'fract's torso energy points (or as I call them "high-hats").

 

- JM6-S: 2*AC/20, 2*medlas, 280XL
The XL is not really a problem, even if i'm close range, because I don't need to stay exposed to deal the damage and I can twist the torso to spread damage between shots. And to be honest, I'd prefer a K2 for a dual AC/20 with standard engine.

- JM6-A: 2*AC/2, 2*ASRM6, 2*medlas, 250STD
I died a lot and quickly when using an XL. This build is not insanely effective but it's versatile, its nice to play.
I'm still testing if I use 2*ASRM6 or 4*SRM4, I'll post the "final" version on the forum, I think there's nothing similar.

- JM6-DD: 5*AC/2, 200STD
Just bought it, never tried with an XL (I don't think I easily can, I have 0 free slot left, so to keep the same amount of DHS I'll need a 250XL, which is 1t heavier than the 200STD).

edit: as a general rules I'd say no XL on the Jag.
Except if you're comfortable with a "glass canon" gameplay (personally I'm not ^^)

 

4xSRM4 would still be pretty mean; equal weight to 2xSRM6 and 4 tons less than 4xASRM4. Just as good close up (better, per ton), and about the same per ton at the tail end of the range.

The nice thing about the Jag vs. the K2 is that you get the choice when you go dual AC/20: XL engine or STD? With the K2 you have to go STD. With the Jag, you can use the arms aiming or lock to torso; K2 you're always locked to torso.

I will agree that with the lighter weapons, you need more time-on-target, which is why they probably fall prey more easily. In order to be effective, you can't use defensive maneuvers. The AC/2 is particularly notorious for this.

I think I might amend your rule. If you are getting slow, heavy hitters (or "thumpers" as I called them in my ballistics post that nobody has corrected me on), XL engine is fine. If you are getting fast hitters (or "plinkers" as I called them), STD engine is safer. Keep in mind that the XL engine offers more speed than the STD, which can sometimes be a lifesaver.

 

I am currently runnning my "S" variant with Dual Gauss and I totally love it. It is my first really specialized 'mech and it took some getting used to, but from a distance this baby picks apart the opposition.

If you have the patience and the focus to move and shoot, then move again; this is alot of fun to play. Remember to use cover to protect your body and the enemy will have a very difficult time taking you out.

Mythweaver.

 

With my 4-man lance [2xAtlas, 1xMedium, 1xJager (2xAC20).] This variant nets me around 400-600 per match. The trick is to stay together, let the Atlai be the focus and let the Cent/Treb begin to harass the flanks. That is when I let those babies go. By the time I get their full attention they are pretty beat up, and if they do take me out, the Cent/Treb can take out the severely damaged. In 8-mans it is the same deal, but just got to be more cautious, I am there to support the Atlai and don't deviate from the task.

 

Now that these have been out for a little bit I believe I have made a decision on what I believe is the most effect Jager I have ran into.

A dual AC20 + 4MLas JM6-S is the meanest build I have encountered. The dual gauss is plentiful and an effective build as well. It's just when I think back over the past couple of weeks to the biggest Jagermech problems I have had to deal with it comes back to dude in that particular S build every time. The guy running it was nice enough to share an important detail about it that allowed us to easily replicate it. Besides packing the aforementioned weaponry it ran a 295XL.

At least from the receiving end thats the Jager build I watch out for. The rest, with perhaps the exception of a dual gauss build, seems to be lacking a little something from the targets perspective at least. Lets face it, if the target feels like your weapon misses a little something then you are probably missing a little something.

 

I bought all 3 of the variants and I haven't really been disappointed. I have been mostly running them as brawlers too. The thing to remember is that to have any decent weapon configuration you have to run an XL engine. Running them as brawlers is high risk/high reward though especially if you are running 2xAC/20. I have gone matches without a kill and an early death but at the same token I have done 5-6 kill matches as well.

 

Well after struggling to find the ideal builds, and failing after trying just about everything, I pushed through and Elited all three of these 'mechs. As soon as I was done with that last Elite skill, I sold every one of them. (Kept the Engines)

These are one of the coolest looking 'mechs in the game. I went with Vagabond in Black, Red and White. They are great for shooting over ridges etc...
With all of the good things that can be said, I would buy another "Death's Smell" Commando before considering another one of these.

Admittedly, I am a fast, light 'mech pilot but when you look at chassies like the Catapult or Dragon the Jagermech just doesn't compare.

Mythweaver.:sad:

 

The problem with this mech is the hitboxes. To put any kind of viable weapon loadout on this mech you need an XL engine. But, unlike a Catapult, this mech is almost ALL SIDE TORSO. Look at it in mechlab - around 70% of the area of the torso is side torso. When you get into actual combat you find that your side torso gets peeled off VERY quickly without even taking a lot of fire. Once this happens you are dead. There's no comparison with a Catapult. It's actually quite rare to die to a destroyed side torso in a Catapult. Most of the time you get cored or, if you are standing still, headshotted. This is as it should be since the heaviest armor is on the front center torso and the center torso is the LARGEST and most easily hit component. With the Jagermech, on the other hand, the majority of the armor is actually on the SMALLEST portion of the torso. This effectively makes the JM8's torso an enormous weak point - deadly in a mech that relies on XL engines for viable weapon setups. Can it be deadly? Yes. But why would you ever choose one over a Catapult?

 

The ability to aim Dual AC20s up/down a hill is unique to the Jagermech. A lot of pilots may hope that the Jagermech torso hitboxes get a fix just most of the head hitboxes have.

 

As a known light pilot I will say that I adjust my approach vector on Jagers specifically because of this ability. You can't count on being able to use terrain (far above or below their fire arc) because they have such a large degree of movement with those damn arms! It is a pretty big selling feature for this machine.

 

Encountering a Jager in a light? Side and rear jousting encounters ONLY! Circle of death will just equal your own. Though I find since many Jager pilots like finding good cover to shoot over I find I can use that to my advantage.

 

The positioning of the ballistics hardpoints is the ONLY good thing about this mech, imo. Yes, it's nice to be able to aim AC20's up and down a hill. However, the range of these weapons means that you are generally in the middle of the fight (a BAD place to be for this mech) or getting into a duel with another mech away from the team (a BAD place to be for this mech since any ECM light will prevent your team from seeing you while the opposing team will know exactly where you are). But let's look at the CPLT-K2. Yes, it's ballistics hardpoints are torso mounted. But... it's got those lovely energy hardpoints on its arms that are just as easy to snipe with as the JM8's. One of my favorite K2 builds is 2 LLas and 2 UAC-5's. I can snipe with the LLas from cover and do this WITHOUT using ANY ammo. The UAC's come into play during full engagements, when the extra burst damage while using a more heat efficient weapon is more important. And yes, you can kill annoying lights on hills with those arm mounted energy hardpoints.

 

I've found the Jager can effectively do something that the Cataphracts can't: run arm-mounted dual AC/10s with a decent standard engine (and adequate armor/ammo) while using both ES and FF. So... there is something it can do, even if it's extremely limited. :smile:

The K2 can do the same thing but it's a no brainer to forego the standard for an XL, and it's arm energy points make it far better to run a set of PPCs or LLs rather than the AC/10s.

The dual AC/20+XL is a special loadout that only the Jager can do, but I've tried to keep mine away from having XLs. I like running into those and focusing whatever torso is most damaged. I think the chassis is best suited with a pair of UAC5s or lower - if you want decent speed (65-70 kph) with a standard, the weapons loadout is going to be pretty limited.

 

My opinion of Jagers went from "ha-ha, isn't that cute" to "Oh, crap get something much faster or much heavier on it, STAT!"