HBK-4SP Streak Aggregate (2x LLas, 2x MLas, 2x SSRM2, TAG, BAP, STD250)

Thread in 'HBK-4SP' started by dog_funtom, Nov 4, 2013.

  1. dog_funtom

    dog_funtom Well-Known Member

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    Inspired by Archwright's Aggregate, and by Dwergi's and Blagg Zear's suggestions about it.



    Works good as anti-light, as brawler and as back stabber. In case of bad capping situation can deal with capping because doesn't fear lights and can run from others. Can flank except when you turn around corner and run into 2 enemy lances of heavies and assaults :whacko:. Good C-Bill earner for me.

    Similar weapon arm grouping allows you to partly cover.

    Weapon groups:
    [list type=decimal]
    [*]TAG
    [*]SSRMx2, TAG
    [*]MLasx2, TAG
    [*]LLasx2, TAG
    [/list]

    Tips and tricks:
    • If you're planning to repellent lights consider raising mouse sensitivity a bit. Otherwise it can be difficult to maintain missile lock on lights with good pilots.
    • This build has special ability to unleash all its DPS in the middle of torso twisting. Let's call it [glow=green,2,300]Peripheral Alpha[/glow]! How to: align your torso and legs; enable free look; attack with your arms and streaks while rotating and walking with legs. (Well, it's not technically torso twisting, more like full body rotating, but similar result.)
    • Base defense is one of my favorite tasks in this mech. How to: fight as usual (don't stick to base just because I called it “defense”!); when base is under attack and you're not too far away or all your lights are gone, run to it; deal with what you ran into.
      Sometimes there is other medium there, or even freaking Dragon. Still usually I successfully manage to keep them busy until reinforcements is arrived. Speed and brawl-versatility of this build ensure your effectiveness in this role in all cases.
    • If you don't have double basics of this chassis I suggest you to consider raising Cool. Eff. by raising heatsink number to 12 in exchange for dropping armor thickness and/or engine rate and/or secondary equipment (CASE and BAP). (obsolete tip)
    • In short range, fire LLas'es wisely on hotter half of maps. Especially if fight is going to be long. But don't forget about them either, they're good to make finish blast on weakened limb of your enemy.
    • Do your heat discipline is higher than the sky? Consider dropping one DHS in exchange to more ammo or full armor.

    P.S.: Do you tired of light harassing and bullying you almost every match? Was your valuable teammates taken down by those pesky little mechs? Do constant fear of death by a thousand cuts prevents you from being effective? Let's bring revenge! :angry: With this mech you will love enemy lights and they will hate you! Your teammates will be able to fight with enemy non-light mechs in comfortable and calm fashion. And you're still very good in other than anti-light roles.

    UPDATE:
    Changed build a bit by dropping redundant CASE and adjusting other things accordingly. I hope you will not perceive it as build change, because I believe that this is more like error correction than change. Also improved tips.
    Initial build: .
    Thanks don Zappo for this error detection.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 4, 2014
  2. don Zappo

    don Zappo Advanced Member

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    A user walks into this thread and asks.... why the lone C.A.S.E.? I like this build in general, but I feel like some tweaking could make it more interesting. Dropping the CASE is the easy one to me. Then, I'd probably downgrade a MLas to a SLas just to get in an extra heat sink since I think this mech can already run hot enough as it is. Keeping the loadout as much as possible, I would just rearrange the positioning of the weapons. I moved the MLAs to the head and spread out the LLas to help it when a torso inevitably gets blown off. I think this outweighs the benefit of being able to peak a side around corners to bring all the firepower to bear - but, hey, your playstyle may be much better suited to all the weapons bunched up like that.

    Also, I think BAP and a TAG may be a bit redundant as I believe they both effectively counter ECM. Here's my rejiggered build as close to the original as possible:



    This is probably how I would modify it for a similar sort of role:

     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 4, 2014
  3. dog_funtom

    dog_funtom Well-Known Member

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    It's not lone. If ammo explode in right leg it remaining damage may go to right torso and then remaining damage may go to center torso. Well, it's somewhat unlikely to actually get CT damage, so it appears that you're still right. Those CASE was more valuable when I had more ammo, but I wasn't spend it in most matches and therefore dropped.

    Yeah, those 32% looks scary but it's enough for me with my Double Basics. For those who don't leveled it yet, I wrote suggestion to add one more heat sink.

    I want to partly disagree with you. Yes, they are effective usually alone; but this is for light repelling.
    For example, consider this usual situations:
    • You fight with 2 lights (maybe be alone because of flanking) and both have ECM. This is not very rare to lights go in pairs, also they will fight because they think they outnumbered you. And you will fight because this is still easy fight for you (and sometimes no choice because you cannot run from them). BAP is not enough, but TAG still helps.
    • You are in middle of big impact, many ECM. Without your SSRMs you're hot and low DPS, better TAG someone.
    And now why BAP after this two thoughts are both defend only TAG? That's because TAG is very uneasy, requires to keep torso aim and line of sight, also it conflicts a bit with [glow=green,2,300]Peripheral Alpha[/glow]. And BAP is convenient as hell, fully automatic and stuff.
    Plus BAP helps you rip arms with your LLas quicker (since you know where to focus earlier) and TAG helps your LRM teammates and provide you occasional TAG/NARC C-Bills.
    In short: in this build TAG and BAP are not contrary, they are complement each other.

    UPDATE: I followed your thoughts about CASE and dropped it.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 4, 2014
  4. Aylek

    Aylek Administrator Staff Member

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    Do you really need the reach of double LLs? What do you think about this one?

     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 4, 2014
  5. dog_funtom

    dog_funtom Well-Known Member

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    I think it's nice. Less Firepower, but more Cool. Eff., Sustained DPS, speed and armor. Pretty fair exchange.
    But it has some incompatibilities with my play-style:
    • Only one LLas
      LLas is not very powerful weapon when not at least paired. For me in this build LLas is mostly for earlier stages when attempt to push is suicidal and you have to stay bored in cover and wait for action. To make it interesting you can get some long-range weapon and pew-pew through emptiness between your and enemy's forces. But do you really like to uncover yourself only to poke someone with one LLas? I think in average it will lead to receiving more damage than inflicting.
      I think it can be more rational to continue and drop both LLas, in order to make Streak version of Raptor (http://www.mechspecs.com/forum/index.php?topic=2883).
    • Full armor
      I believe that full armor just blocks some potential tons for other staff. When I do my risk management I adjust armor in order to get less ammo with same death probability. For example probability of being killed with 5 head armor is very close to full head armor.
    • TAG
      Not very big thing, but useful in same cases with those pesky lights and AS7-D-DC covering them with his ECM bubble, also provides you TAG/NARC reward and more spotting assists.

    TL;DR
    Very good build but I'll stay with my version. Also, I think it can be even more effective if it will be more close to Raptor (http://www.mechspecs.com/forum/index.php?topic=2883) than to (Streak)Aggregate.
     
  6. Blagg Zear

    Blagg Zear Star Lord

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    Hey Mate, since this is the hunchless Hunchback, you can try XL:



    Should be ok if you don't brawl too much at close range.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 4, 2014
  7. dog_funtom

    dog_funtom Well-Known Member

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    Sounds cool. I'd try, but it's too expensive for me. Maybe someone else wishes to try and report to us? ;)
     
  8. Regina Redshift

    Regina Redshift Sass Elemental

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    I have an XL275 from my Shadowhawks, so I can give both your and Blagg's versions a spin.
     
  9. Blagg Zear

    Blagg Zear Star Lord

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    With 98kph you can even hunt some careless Lights-pilots :rolleyes:
     
  10. don Zappo

    don Zappo Advanced Member

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    Woah. My mind is blown. Even though it's hunchless, I still thought it was a crazy liability to have an XL engine in these things - and I'm an XL junky! I find one of the nicest thing about this mech is that it can lose half of a mech and still beat things in the face. Even though it doesn't have that hunch, people still aim for those side torsos.
     
  11. dog_funtom

    dog_funtom Well-Known Member

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    That was my fist thought too. If you do your torso twist you should end up full zombie in more than half of map. But then I thought, maybe those speed can be your shield?
    Well, I don't have much experience with XLs, so don't take those too seriously...
     
  12. Blagg Zear

    Blagg Zear Star Lord

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    Depends on how to play - if your Priority is "Survivability" then run STD and aggressive gameplay. If your priority is "Firepower" then XL and safer gameplay. I usually play Firesupporter from secondline always backing up the Brawlers and most times they focusfire the bigger dudes in front of me. In the meantime i give some deadly punches from behind. Thats why i can make 700+ Damage with my 42.AC20.Bullets.Hunchy
     
  13. dog_funtom

    dog_funtom Well-Known Member

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    Is it OK to be in fire support role with SSRMs instead of AC/20?
     
  14. Blagg Zear

    Blagg Zear Star Lord

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    not with SSRMs, but with Double LLas yes! The Streaks are meant to be a defensive backup against Lights.. but if necessary you can add them to your Laserattacks for sure.
     
  15. Regina Redshift

    Regina Redshift Sass Elemental

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    The biggest problem with the base version is that taking out the right torso or arm removes most of your firepower and all of your long-range punch.

    The TAG is a welcome addition for sure. The ability to cut through ECM is a hell of a thing.

    Blagg's XL version is just too fragile for me. LRMs are its bane, and in order to get in close enough to be effective you need to have some sort of defense against that.
     
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