VTR-9K "Grinding Edition" (1x LRM20, 1x LBX10, 3x ML, 5x JJ, XL350)

Hi there, this is my first post related to MWO. Please be patient and excuse my english

I don't like the Hardpoints of the 9K and it was very tricky to find a config, i can live with. But i want my 9B mastered.
So let's have a look at the Hardpoints:
1B :angry::
AC 20: impossible
Gauss: strange on a mech, that isn't able to snipe on maps with terrain
AC10 / LB10X: just a single one? hm
AC5/UAC5/AC2,MG: just a single one? never
->LB10X. I just love them (in pairs)

3E :angry::
LL, PPC: too hot and heavy for my taste
M(P)L, S(P)L: boring as always, but seems to work

2M: (10,5!!! )
LRM: annoying on sight and makes enemies turn round, so i can hit their backs
SRM: i can't handle them.
SSRM: just 2? Really?

Mixing the same in different sizes doesn't work for me. Thx to the new reloadingtimes.
->lrm20. Feels like double LRM10 in chainfire. Passes a single AMS with some dmg.
Most of the time i use it below 500m on sight contact.

+ fight on every map on every distance
+ fight several targets at once
+ hard to get heatproblems
+ acceptable fast

- could be more ammo
- no AMS
- it's still the Victor 9K

 

Hey and welcome to MechSpecs!

Hm, your primary damage dealer is the LRM20. Secondary is the three MLAS and third the LBX which is spread damage. I'm sorry but I think you will have problems going up against pinpoint damage builds.

As a late game build, this will do well ripping into exposed or near exposed parts but in the early stages it will have issues with the spread damage vs a unhurt assault or heavy.

I am betting you usually hang back, shoot the LRM's and about five minutes in is the earliest you go to work in CQB?

 

Have you tried this one in comparison?

 

No, i don't (not @Blagg Zear)

I choose one target (size doesn't matter) and hit it with LBX10 (more effective range than the lrm!) and LRM20 while closing in. The moment i'm in range i start circling (with the use of JJ, if possible) and firing with ML and LB10X on parts, that promise critical damage after a few hits. It's relative easy to hit the head with this build. Espacially, when they shut down . Enemies with high pinpoint have a low rate of fire and problems with pinpointing all their weapons in close range. I can still spam lrms on other targets.

I don't rock in this mech. But there a a few rounds with 800 dmg + and a few kills and some assists (LRM ). Avarage is ~400. K/D seems positive. I just wanted a cheap loadout to grind 60k xp without suffering too hard. I tried with Gauss (there is always something that blocks 2/3 shots after charging. A little rock i didn't see, a team member trying to killsteel,... In my opinion the arm hardpoints are too low mounted to rely on pinpoint weapons. And i really hate heatcritical loadouts

A very good opponent with high pinpoint is a problem. But these group is so rare that i won't focus my loadout on them.

I focused on a high rate of fire, critical hits, constant dps and heatefficiency

@ Blagg Zear:
- UAC5: no way (read the patch notes). Espacially not a single one. Just 75 ammo?
- lrm10: rate of fire....
- single medium laser: no
- 2LL: rate of fire, weight, heat
- 1JJ: are you kidding me? The only positive in 9K wasted
- weapon lab tells me something about shutdown after ~20s
- edit: and you have four different reloading times (i prefer a maximum of three weapongroups)

Your build is the opposit of mine
I have 1minute of continous Close range fighting, u shut down after 27s

Maybe i will test with 2flamers and tag instead of 3ML

and it's the Grinding Edition: i want the xp as fast as possible to sell this mech
dmg, assists, component destruction... >> all

 

- UAC5: Why not? Its not totally useless after Patch. It just jams more natural and 3tons are OK. It still has more Range and Snipe.Ability + Pinpoint.Damage than the LBX
- lrm10: less Heat, less spread, less Cool Down, less critslot.demanding than a LRM20 (though i would prefer SRMs with the Victors)
- single medium laser: at high Heatlevel, why not? Better than without and only depending on LLas or UAC5
- 2LL: more Range Firepower than 3x MLas can ever have, and one LLas Beam is producing less Heat than 2 MLas at similar Damage Score, so why not?
- 1JJ: just to jump over hills and faster torsotwisting in Brawls, why do you need so many JJs if you priorize in Brawling with your build? Besides if you want to jump that much, you definitely need much more Leg-Armor
- "weapon lab tells me something about shutdown after ~20s" - well, if you alphafire much, but with mainly Long-Mid Range Weapons I don't need to do that, just chainfire
- "edit: and you have four different reloading times (i prefer a maximum of three weapongroups)" - four Weapongroups + 1 Alphastrike is absolutely normal

"Your build is the opposit of mine " - if we talk about Range then yes
"I have 1minute of continous Close range fighting, u shut down after 27s" - You have 1x LBX and 3x MLas for Close Range, i have 1x UAC5, 2x LLas & 1x MLas.. i don't think i need 27s to core you first.

p.s.: don't get me wrong - i like the LBX very much, but i would rather combine it with more powerful Close Range/Armor Peeling Weapons, like SRMs

something like this:

 

UAC5: without jamming it's a big, heavy AC5 with 100m more range and less ammo/ton
I have several AC5 (and had UAC5) loadouts and i can run out of ammo with 100shots/AC5 without missing more than 10%
LRM 10 vs LRM 20: one lrm 10 with 3.75 s of reload vs two lrm 10 with 4.75s of reload
1JJ vs 5JJ: i can drop of a wall, drive some meters and jump on it behind the enemy. Useful in Canyon, Mordor, River City,...
edit: I don't need any skill to climb a wall
And it's the only interesting in this mech
I use LBX10 even on distance. I won't do the full damage, I won't do pinpoint dmg, but i do "guaranteed" dmg even on lights with fullspeed.
I can't get heatproblems on distance. You can. (and I would, with your build :blush

Maybe you can core me first (if you hit 100% and don't jam your uac5. I'm not afraid of two LL) . What about the next mech ? And there are some maps you won't have 27s...

You're right. SRMs would be the better combination. But i can't handle them (always missing half the shot on moving targets)

Don't get me wrong. I'm not a pro gamer. I just want to have fun with a mech i don't like. And I thought, there could be more of my sort
Just press 3 Buttons and watch the xpcounter

edit: to use 2LL and UAC5 on distance, you have to expose whole the mech and you need to look for "stupid" teammembers and tiny rocks on both sides of the mech whole the time. I'm not a pro gamer. I can't

 

UAC5: Ok, after recent Patch the UAC5 indeed feels like an AC5 due to its Cool Down Time. If you don't like it, you still can load the cooler and nojam- AC5 instead and have more Bullets
Most of my UAC5/AC5 Builds have 3+ tons of Ammo each Cannon, and most matches i don't run dry with that. If you mostly run dry with 3tons of Ammo without missing more than 10%, then you might be an excellent/lucky Shooter most times

LRM 10 vs LRM 20: in combination with hotter & heavier & powerful dual LLas it was the only viable choice to keep a viable LRM.Pod, but standing alone you are right.

1JJ vs 5JJ: Ok, if you use Jumpjets that much at Brawling Range, still i doubt you can survive better with that low Leg-Armor, because jumping so high you definitely get most hits at your legs

Why?? It only has a slightly higher Heat Efficiency in trade for more Range Power

Simple Evaluation:

Alpha-Firing:
Your Heatproduction: 1x LBX (2.00) + 1x LRM20 (6.00) + 3x MLas (12.00) = Total 20.00 @ 14 DHS (note: LBX + LRM20 > 270m with high spread)

My Heatproduction: 1x UAC5 (1.00) + 1x LRM10 (4.00) + 2x LLas (14.00) + 1x MLas (4.00) = Total 23.00 @ 16 DHS (note: UAC5 + 2x LLas + LRM10 > 270m with significantly less spread)

At Close Range

 

Don't get me wrong, i don't want to troll, i like the discussion

I love AC5 builds. If I have at least two of them (i will mount them on 9S ). Three are better. I tried to get the best out of a "small", single ballistic hardpoint. Alternative is AC10, but it's heavier, and it's much harder to hit a moving target on distance (the main reason is, that i had to buy one, if i want to test ).
I'm not an excellent shooter, but i have very lucky rounds (>1k dmg with two AC5 and 4 ssrms). I still can run dry without hitting "anything"

I never get legged in 9K. Never!. Everybody is aiming for my torso and my arms. I really don't know why . Maybe it's because i jump up to them. Just sometimes over them. But i never lost a leg. Red is possible Maybe it's because you need 30 more dmg to leg me, then to crush my centertorso.

At real close range: I do pinpoint with the LBX10, i don't with the 3ML. Just watch the blinking parts of stationary enemies in the training grounds. Real enemies, that aren't afk will move on getting hit. No chance to do pinpoint with lasers. You have exactly 5! pinpointdmg in close range every 1.5 s in your build. Your LL sometimes won't even hit the same part. LL shot duration: 1s (as ML)! And most important: they won't hit the same part as the UAC5. This makes the single! UAC5 close to be wasted tonnage in infight. Even my Victor 9B has more! pinpoint dmg with three AC2. And it's not designed for pinpoint

Do you deal enough dmg to a moving light >1km to get an assist with xp, without the need to focus on it? It's tricky to hit with the UAC5, your LL and your LRM are out of range. A single shot of the LBX10 without concentrated aiming and the light turns to yellow ->XP
If it's below ~800m one shot of LBX10 and - if it's locked - 2LRM 10. This causes more dmg than 2LL+ LRM10 with the same aiming. Everybody underestimates the LBX10 on range.

You will have huge problems of using UAC5 with LL on the hot maps. In Mordor the teammembers and the Terrain, in Turmaline (should name it to asbestos. It's definitively not turmaline. Am geologist) the asbestosspikes, the terrain and the teammembers.


PS: I have a 4 Button Mouse. And not a single weapon Group on it. Just things like map, zoom, JJ...
I don't use a keyboard for movement, i use a Joystick.bIt's for the right hand and i use it with the left. This limits me to 3 weapongroups i can controll at once. (And i love watching other players after i'm done. So many weapongroups, they forget half of them when fighting)

PPS: there's another point: try to aim at an "agile" mech, while you get hit by LBX10, LRM10, LRM10, LBX10, LRM10, LRM10, LBX10, 3ML, LBX10... closing in in random wavy lines and using the cover on the way (with the use of JJ). You're orange-red at several points before it's there. The only thing, that could rescue your arse are teammates
With SRMS instead of LRMS it won't even reach you

(For example my favorite Jäger with 2LBX10 and 4MGs. Kills an Atlas in no time without getting hit twice)

In other words: with your build, the map is your enemy. With mine, it's your friend. (I still don't like the 9K)

Maybe, i will give this one a try:

 

Yeah i like this discussion too. I understand your point now, you want to do any damage to get as much assistance xps as possible. Ok, from this point of view it is ok to use the LBX.

About the JJs, ok it's a matter of personal preference to have little or much of them depending on the playstyle. I actually don't try to jump over enemies, at least not with an assault Mech, i rather use them to have better agility for twisting and jumping over obstacles. And for that 1-2 JJs are sufficient for my playstyle.

About the LBX: if you stay close enough you actually hit better at one part because of minimum spread, but at normal combat range >180m the LBX is weak, even weaker if enemies are still full armored.

Pinpoint.Damaging on moving Enemies are not that difficult as it looks like. You just have to wait for the right moment, when they slow down e.g. for direction change, or when they run against an obstacle, or overheating etc. and usually as an Assault you usually should concentrate your fire on slower heavies & assaults, leaving the smaller Mechs for your escort. When i play Brawler.Victor I actually target the bigger & slower Enemies like ECM.Atlas & Stalker, concentrating fire on the Sidetorsos with Pinpoint.Damage. Was never a big deal to do the Pinpoint-Damage. If you talk about smaller Mediums & Lights running over 90kph, OK, that's a big deal to focus fire on one part while they move. But thats not MY target, when i play Victors, and neither should they be your target, especially not with your build.

About the UAC5: Is not waste to use a single one. The Screenshake is for confusion, so that they have diffulties to return fire. From this point the UAC is superior to the LBX, from the damage effectiveness, IMO, as well -> Great range, great DPS, highly accurate. Only the Jam sometimes sucks, but i'm ok with that. But that's my opinion based on my xperience with both weapons. If you get better results with the LBX, so be it.

Hell no, i don't know how you use Large Lasers, they definitely are more viable at that range than a LBX. Can't believe you say this. If the LBX is really that powerful, it would be suggested by many other players. Look at the Heavy-Assault Threads, you find more Large Lasers Builds than LBX-Builds. There must be a reason, don't you think?

No, my answer to this statement is simply NO! You need to train aiming + shooting with Long Range Pinpoint.Weapons. And i recommend you to play with KB+Mouse. It's not a miracle, that you talk like this, if you are using a Joystick + Mouse for aiming.

If you nonstop fire - i would say, you r right. But who would do that on a hot map? Neither you nor your enemies. And talking about hot maps - well, yes you would be more lucky if you have cooler weapons, but i never heard that two Large Lasers would be too hot to use on Mordor - not @16DHS.

p.s.: Even if you can't do high Pinpoint.Damage with two Large Lasers at Range, if you can follow the target with your aiming cross, while you burn it, you still do 2x 9 Damage Score. Let's say it's not Pinpoint.Damage, let's say it's like Spread.Damage. You still do 18 Damage Score vs 10 Damage Score of the LBX, which is spreading even more the 10 Pellets over the target. Yeah you r right, it's "cooler", but at Long Range you usually have time (returning back to cover) to cool down, @ 16 DHS it's not a big deal. LBX is for finishing off "Opened Cans". For that you need something to open the cans first. If you use the LBX only for grinding Assistance XPs, then your Victor is far below its full potential. For Close Range Encounters i rather recommend the AC10 than the LBX, if you don't have anything to crack armors fast.

 

You got me

I love surprise

Try the JM 6DD with two LBX10 and 4MGs. It's the funniest and easiest thing i ever builded and it was a huge surprise to me
Had a one on four on mordor two days ago. I took 2 Atlas (Close to be permanent shutdown) and a Cataphract with me, before i got killed by the light.
I just needed to use the mech i engaged as cover to the other three. 900dmg, three kills. Not a single release of the two buttons i pressed. Heat at 10% all the time. This is the only mech, i did 5 kills with (completely on my own). A buddy of mine loves it, too.

What about enemies that don't slow down and don't overheat? The funny of the Victors is, that you don't need to behave like an assault. You can act as a huge heavy with 70km/h and JJs (as mentioned, it's just for grinding -> just the basic skills). You just have less firepower. The only enemies i need to fear are heavys.

I regard Atlas and Stalker as a "free kill" (1 of 10 surprises me) with every mech in my Garage hear:
Maybe this is because the Victors are the slowest.

LBX10+LRM20+3ML is a goof combination against lights and mediums, if you sit in something "slow". Most of the time, they just escape, if i start shooting at them
You're right, This should not be our target. But it's MWO and not WOT. I don't expect anything of the team. Never. This would just be frustrating

accuracy is to high for fast moving targets. First shot: either in front or behind the target, second shot: target is in cover. How much of your LL will really hit the enemy? What happens to the damage beyond 450m? Would a single LBX10 do more dmg, at let's say 700m? You won't deliver the whole dmg, but you need one second of aiming. Then have a look at the weaponspeeds. You need different aiming with AC5 and LL

The reason is simple: there is no assault, that can boat LBX

I'm quite effective with AC2 () and AC5(). But usually i boat them and this causes a genious rate of fire (don't never, ever chainfire AC2. Perhaps on traininggrounds to regard the exponential growth of heat )
Joystick: movement (!) , weapongroups, lock and on Buttons i can't reach in fight things like thermal view, missile doors,...
Mouse: aiming, zooming, map, JJ

The thing is: you can do that with the loadout in the starting post. Just with the basic skills
Just don't use ML and LRMs at once. If you'r close enough vor ML, just use the LRMs if you have heatcapacity free.

@ the PS: you have to compare 2LLs (4.24dps, 3.3hps) + LRM10(2.9 dps 1hps) vs LBX10 (4dps, 0.8hps) + LRM20 (4.6 dps 1.3hps).
second is higher potential dps with less heat. Substract the spread and add the cockpitshaking

PPS: most of the builds i read here - even the high rated - are far too hot, to be effective. Usually they put in as much weapons as possible without regarding heat and ammo(it's 12 vs 12. Not good, to be out of ammo and beyond the heatcap when fighting the second or third enemy. Then, they start using their "backupweapons" instead of investing this weight in ammo and dhs). First time, i played MechWarrior (2), i did the same

 

Tried it already, yeah dual LBX10 is better. But i prefer dual AC10 + 4MGs on the JM6-DD, get faster kills.

you still can follow them or you return to your mob and then find another target. Never try to run after faster mechs if the whole enemy team is still alive.

yeah i agree with you mate. That's why i target them first.. then deal with the rest in your mob.

Well, yapp, i think, if you have taken out the Big Assaults, then Mediums & Lights should not be as dangerous as a High-Alpha-Monster. And if Lights are in front of ya, you can still try to leg them with two Large Lasers plus a single MLas.. I think Lights would be scared off as well, when they see you burning them.

I don't focus on fast moving targets with the victors, not as primary target. I leave them to my faster Mates. I dare to say, you would deal little damage with the LBX on fast targets as well.
Yeah the LLas and the UAC5 have differend weaponspeeds, but i consider the LLas as primary weapons, and the UAC5 as supporting weapon (for screenshakes). So its ok to have different speeds. I still can do up to 23 Direct Fire Damage at Long Range in the first shot, while you only have the LBX with Spread.

huh???? Every Heavy-Assault Mech with a Ballistic Slot can boat LBX. But they wouldnt boat it as first choice. Large Lasers? Yeah, in many cases.

Your build is strong at Range 270 and if Ammo are dry already. Depends on playstyle. I like the LBX as well, definitely a fun.cannon, but i prefer to use it as secondary weapon supporting strong Armor-Peeling Weapons.

 

I tried AC5+ 3LL and I start to fear Atlas
The damage of the LLs is highly reduced beyond 450m.
A single AC5 is something i would'nt even think in a raven about.

maybe, I missunderstood boating. I thought of at least 2 LBX10

My build begins to work at 1km and get's continous better when closing in.
The AC5+3LL begins to "work" below 500m. Makes me feel like an assault. Slow, hot and with long time of waiting between the shots. No chance in any one on one :blush:

A Raven, that get's hit by a LBX10 and 3ML starts to run (if he still can). Then he gets LRM20 in the back. Even, if this isn't enough, i won't see him again .

 

sorry my mistake, i read load in my mind instead of boat. The AC5 + 3x LLas build is worse than your original build because of Heat Penalty Rule and low DPS. But hey, maybe try at least one LLas with the LBX, can boost up your Damage at Range.

 

Define range below 450m? LBX10 + LRM 20 is OK
I did a little downgrade and now i really start enjoying the 9K

Could be cooler, but it WORKS
3SL+SRM4 as one weapongroup in my case. If you can handle 4, even better
Next round, i'll try chainfiring the little group

 

3x SLas? ok... not really my choice, but if you have success with it, so be it!

 

Well, I didn't had any use for the additional range of the ML (just additional heat i can't dissipate)

3ML: 3.8 DPS 3HPS ->1.3 D/H 3t,
3SL+SRM4 : 5.5 DPS 3HPS ->1.8 D/H 4,5t (3,5t+1t ammo)
2LL: 4.2 DPS 3.3HPS -> 1.3 D/H 10t
simple choice (tell me, if i did an error while calculating. My brain is out of training)
I miss the 5th JumpJet, but the chainfire of 3SL and the SRM compensates a lot. Without heattrouble

 

You prefer high DPS with low Damage at Close Range? I wish you good Luck

 

It seems to work. Not a single bad round with this Setup (OK, let's repeat that when i'm done with the grinding). I still won't keep the mech.
Where would you prefer high DPS? Doesn't make sense to me on distance. Not with enemies shooting and hiding. In this scenario i prefer high pinpoint (like dual Gauss, PPC,...). Even heat wouldn't matter that much. Closerange, they can't hide. Chainfire of 3SL and SRM with permanent LBX10 seems to have a psychological effect on enemies.
A single AC20 has no stopping power. Catch a single bullet and enjoy the next 4s

PS: this build is not an effective killer. Never wanted it to be. Dmg, kill assists and component distruction give much more XP then a fast kill, if i regarded right.

 

Can I ask about your KDR and average damage (per game) with this build? I am not trying to be offensive, I'm just amazed since you are going totally the other way as opposed to what most of us have done with this chassi. I'm curious.

 

well that's an interesting topic, you are talking about. I think, it depends on playstyle. Either you have high (Alpha)Damage, maybe even over Range, and kill off Enemies, before they can ever return serious fire, or you engage at Mid Range and have a Cool Weaponloadout, which fires nonstop and doing high DPS over long time. Both have its pros & cons. I think some of the high rated builds seem to be hot, but they only need some few Focus Shots over a short time before Overheating to get Kills, and then getting into cover to cool down. DPS-Builds are only good to confuse enemies, but in raw combats they are inferior to hotter high Damage Builds with acceptable Cool Effiency in most cases. With DPS-Builds you have to avoid incoming damage very very cleverly. But if your enemies are good Shooters you won't avoid much. So in the end, you can calculate as much as you want with DPS and Cool Effiency, but there is something like an optimal balance between (Alpha)Firepower & DPS.
Keeping much Ammo & plenty of DHS can give you high DPS, but at Costs of Firepower and the Risk of Ammo.Explosion i would consider it twice.
I play a Triple AC5 + 2x MLas CTF-4X with plenty plenty of Ammo for over 1.5k damage if i ever can survive till the end, great Cool Efficiency, and high DPS, but engaging an Stalker or an Atlas with hot Builds, i still could get killed within seconds, if I don't keep safe distance. Imagine an Atlas has hot Weapons: AC20, 3x SRM6, 2x LLas.. He might have only 2-3 Alphas before getting OH, but If he is not a very bad shooter, he can core you with that few shots, much faster, than you him with LBX + 3x MLas, even if you could shoot him the whole match without any Heatmatters. The only thing that might save you from instant death are your Jumpjets, but still, you need much luck to survive in close range encounters.