Actually bought one of these and was tinkering with builds. I personally prefer to use hardpoints up if a Mech has em because that's what makes a mech unique. This mech seems to be a very versatile platform while having near Assault levels of armor while retaining the Heavy mechs speed. I would have preferred to use UACs but was forced at gunpoint into an XL engine. I could have made the same ole boring (same ole cause it works) AC20/Mlas build blah blah blah but I chose to go this way instead. I have some decent range with the AC5s while having enough ammo to allow you to take risky shots on occasion but when they get in close that's when the pain starts and with a large engine getting in close isn't as hard. Getting in close is this mechs bread and butter so armor has been brought slightly forward to protect the torso and shoulders (hey its what I call em R and L torso sounds stupid lol) and has been kept at a very high level to protect that pesky XL doom box. Very good Alpha while not mind boggling, more importantly good DPS and good survivability with its high armor and good speed should make this one tough customer.
Hey fhfwolfy, Sorry, I gave you a 2/5 on this build. I agree with your ideas in theory, and I even like the use of the MPLas in there, I do enjoy using them when I can. However the problem I see with the build and your description is how much "armor" and "tough customer" you claim it to have. I have had just the opposite experience so far. It really has mediocre armor levels, not bad, little better than the Jagermech. The problems are twofold: It is slow, regardless of engine it is still a bit sluggish. I'm sure the Orion might be better in this area when we can elite them and double those movement bonuses, but right now it is just a bit too slow for how much armor it has. It either needs more armor, or more responsiveness. The second problem is GIANT Center Torso. Your arms are fairly small in relation to your CT, makes it hard to twist and block shots. And the CT is just brutally large... I just can't get within 300m of anything without exploding shortly thereafter. So I like your idea here, the AC 5's aren't bad for some decent range poking, but the bulk of your damage lies under 300m, where the Orion just gets obliterated.
I like the idea of this build, as it reminds me of a mini Atlas. The issue I have with the OP is the MPL, and the low ammo for the AC5. I would change it to this Alt.
I have to completely disagree with your assessment of the speed of this build. Most heavies unless they are speed tweaked run in the 60-69 Kph range. This one without speed tweak is already 10KPH faster. The armor is no where near most Jaggers. The Jagger range usually 368-384 and the cataphract is wider and its armor is usually about 400-416 giving this build nearly 80 more armor than the Jagger and 50 more than the Cat. That is like saying a jenner has nearly the same armor as a cataphract. I brawl extremely successfully in the much less armored Cataphract and Jagermech and see this as narrower than a phract and much much better armored than the Jagger while being much faster than both while having roughly the same firepower. It is your opinion and I respect it but 2 stars? Sounds a bit excessive especially since you couldn't give me specifics as to why beyond the basic problem with ANY build using this chassis (the mech itself) I don't see how you can penalize a build based solely on the mechs chassis I thought the point of these was to optimize the mech you have not wish for a better mech. Vergere - Yup that was one of the first variations I came up with but wanted to try a build with MPLas instead of the same boring ole MLas I never expected this to be a 5star build because it was built to my taste with the MPLas even though it is more effective chainfire with the 3 Mlas (range, better FP same DPM and nearly the same heat) but I wanted the MPLas because they have less heat per click (2xMPLas = 10Heat) Vs 3 Mlas (12 Heat) and I wanted to be able to use them for Alphas and wanted that less heat. The 180 rounds for the AC/5 seems excessive given my meager ability as even when using my quad AC5 boat I rarely use all 200rnds. Someone like you could probably go through 400 rounds lol but I am just not there yet. Rarely have I seen people use the word for word build they usually tweak SOMETHING to suit their tastes so I put my taste up here and am happy to give people a base to season to their liking. Perfect example is my "Frustration build" consistently gets over 800 damage and even with me driving has gotten over 1000 damage but still only 4 stars. Theres always SOMETHING someone can do better so I don't try to appeal to everyone's taste anymore and just build em the way I like em instead of worrying about chasing 5 stars Blagg - Hey bud got to see you in action yesterday...or was it the day before lol great work in your Catapult. This build generates on paper 18 heat per full alpha (2 less than if I used 3 MLas). Thats 5 alphas per 100% heat bar. Few mechs are much better and many are much worse. The heat for this build would be exactly the same per click as if I used 3x Mlas and 2xSRM4 vs 2xMPlas and 2 SRM6. 2x MPlas 10 heat vs 3xMLas 12 Heat 2x SRM6 8 heat vs 2x SRM4 6 heat Total 18 vs 18
Hey fhfwolfy, didn't mean to offend you with my rating and opinions. I just felt like this build didn't pack enough punch to warrant the close ranged nature of the setup. I think the purpose of any build is to maximize the strengths of a mech and minimize the weaknesses, and I think building this to primarily put damage out from less than 300m doesn't really achieve that. I think if you could replace the AC5's with something a little heavier it could work a little better. You really have to have enough punch to scare people off if you're going to get that close, and the alpha on this setup doesn't seem to achieve that to me. 2 MLas and 2 SRM 6 is less damage than an alpha from a zombie CN9-A, even if you count in the AC5's you still come up short while having less survivability. You are correct that it does have more armor total than a Jager and near that of a Cataphract, the problem here is that a LOT of that armor is in the legs, which is mostly wasted tonnage on the Protector. If we could get about 10 more shifted to the torso, it could possibly be effective since so far everyone is just going directly for CT. And yes, it does run overall faster than several brawler setups of heavies, but the problem isn't the total speed, it is the handling. It turns and moves like an assault, in my opinion. The arms also don't cover enough of that big CT to help enough in close quarters as well. So if I were to make some improvements, I would say possibly consider some bigger close range ballistics like LB-10x or AC 10, but with the XL you can't run double LB-10x or AC 20s unfortunately, Possibly going with LB-10x and Large Pulses to really give you some bigger impact up close? I'm not sure, hence why I haven't been able to make a brawling range build work well so far. But I appreciate the ideas and the thought, don't be offended by my opinions, its just that, an opinion =). Also sorry for the lack of further explanation behind my rating, I hope this makes my thoughts more clear. Edit: I worked up a Victor 9s that moves very similarly, but adds jumpjets and quite a bit more firepower for brawling style engagements. It's a mech that is 5 more tons and does everything the Protector can do, only better. This is just another example of why I don't think the Protector is suited for brawling, even when optimized to do so. It is just too big and bulky yet not armored heavily enough to warrant the setup so far. Perhaps if PGI makes some tweaks to it, I could see a build like this working much better, but it just needs more firepower or armor or speed, and I just don't see how you can do this currently. But keep playing with the lab and I'm sure you'll find the right balance! =) VTR-9S
Didnt offend me at all bud. After all thats why we put our builds here. If we all had 5 star builds all the time we wouldn't need the input from the community. The advantage of the Dual AC5s over an AC10 is 2 fold, heat and range. A single AC10 does exactly the same damage as 2 AC 5s while giving you a single point of failure, more heat and shorter range and less opportunities to hit a fast light. The LBX10 in my opinion is only good as a support weapon since it is anything but pinpoint so putting that damage exactly where you want it is not easy. Going with something like 2 LPlas and an AC10 if you wanted to keep any kind of missiles would give you an absolute nightmare heatwise as well as a much smaller engine and I have long found out you can have 175 firepower but if the minute you fire it your heat explodes out the cockpit its almost worthless because while you wait for the cool down that Jager and his 15 alpha puts 3x UACs about a dozen times through your melon for the kill. Please show me a zombie CN9-A that can carry more than 2 medium lasers or 1 large laser. A CN9-A with both its arms gone can put out 45 damage (4 less) IF he still has all his heatsinks intact and has 3 SRM6 and a LLas or 2 Med laser. Could I have gotten a gigantic stupid alpha out of the mech? Sure I could but I would sacrifice armor, speed, ammo and who knows what else in order to do it. I have proven that DPS beats FP most of the time and at best using that crazy firepower loadout on a CN9-A you would get 45 torso Firepower, 4 less, but would have very bad DPS and virtually no armor to speak of unless you use an XL engine and even THEN the engine would have to be smaller. Bottom line is the top rated CN9-A has 14 less firepower, half the DPS and 120 less armor than this but goes faster. The Orion has MORE armor than the Cataphract not "near". The Cataphract, previously the armored beast of the Heavy line has 44 arms, 40-44 front R/L Torso, 88 CT (WITH a bigger torso), and 60 in the legs. Where the Protector has 4 more in each spot except the head...4 points that can be shifted forward giving it even more protection. I do not see where you get the leg armor being where the majority of the armor is. The Protector has exactly 4 more in every spot except the head and thats the same as an Atlas Bottom line is this I have done 1000 damage in a brawler with far less firepower and DPS than this and not near the survivability. Also this build has more Firepower than ANY of the top rated builds for this mech and more DPS than all but 1 while keeping about the same armor and speed. 5 Stars probably not. 4 stars possibly, 3 Stars easily but 2 stars.... Here is how I would class a 2 star mech and the ONLY way I would classify a mech as 2 stars. It has tons of unused weight and many empty slots. Its a boat with artemis but no missiles its a boat missing half its hardpoints, its a 33KPH Jagger...(yes ive seen it). What it is NOT is a Mech that gets 49 Alpha, more than any other 4 star build of its chassis, over 6 DPS, higher than every top rated build on this chassis but 1, with the highest armor of any heavy while keeping some long range capability thanks to the AC5s and excellent speed for its weight class with 0 tons left available and 0 slots. Didn't offend me at all bud thats what we are here for. You have given me your opinion and I have given you mine
Oh and in a brawl I do not get bullied easily. I enjoy 1 shotting Atlas' in the eyeball who think they can bully me. Brawling isn't just about bullying its about using cover, timing and your enemies weakness against them. Brawling to me does not equal rush until your cockpits touch (YES I said cockpits touch sigh...)then blast away with everything you have until one of you is dead. I will admit to be surprised when a mech got 4 stars by several voters that has, less DPS, Less Firepower, Slower speed, less ammo, no AMS, worse cooling and only a few points more armor. Is there some hidden criteria im missing?
You make a lot of good points sir, and I appreciate that you stick to your opinion =) I still am not a fan of the Protector in a brawling layout, and I'd still like to see a little more up front firepower to put the fear of Mechgod into someone when they round a corner and see you, but if it works for you that is all that really matters isn't it? I agree with your assessment of the star ratings as well. I am rather new to the site, but I've been browsing it for a bit, and I like your evaluation of the rating. I removed my 2 star and bumped it up to a 3 star, because it truly is a viable setup, without any glaring flaws, but I don't feel it is exceptional or amazing, so I think a 3 star fits here, yeah? Keep on tinkering! Edit: And after discussing brawling and brawling tactics here, and tinkering up that Victor 9s build, now I want that Victor 9S... it looks sexy...
Just make sure and get rid of the ammo next to your engine in the shoulder... =) and yes I can see this as a very strong 3 star.
Yeah i love my C1! About the Heat of your build: should be ok if you fire in weapongroups, just needs a bit Heatmanagement. You still have a high DPS because of the very cool AC5s! So I gave your build 4 of 5. With the MLas + SRM4s + more DHS i would have given 5 of 5. Though its 18 v 18 -> Low Range + more Heat (MPLas vs MLas) & two Volleys + more Heat (SRM6 vs '4) Honestly i wouldnt seek for Close Range Brawls with the Orion unless I have a high Pinpoint.Damage Punch without Overheating too fast. So better MLas for safer Range and SRMs only for the case if enemies get too close.
It's about roles, and what I suppose you could call weapon convergence. So you want to brawl, but you've got an XL engine, even with this things huge CT I still don't like XL's in brawlers. on top of that you're forcing youself in really close with the MPL's. Sure one on one this mech can be scary, but in a furball it drops far to fast. The way this mech is at the moment (not just your build) it is simply is not for brawling. it's not got the armour or the weaponry to slugg it out with the assaults, nor the speed ( yes even at 78kph ) to make up for it. The armour on this mech is sadly lacking, it's not about the numbers here you have 70 armor on the CT which is huge! all this mech is is ct. Currently a jenners torso can take more damage to the torso than this thing can. regarding DPS vs. alpha : I'm sorry but I wish that dps was more important than alpha, but its not, you crest a hill and do 10 points of damage, enemy mech hits you with 30 then dips round a corner, your the guy whos going to lose. 1vs.1 in a field, yeah your going to win, but 12vs.12 on the maps we have. DPS matters when you can soak up the damage and keep rolling in, and the only mechs that works with are Assaults. Convergence: ok I love the dual AC5, even better its got a huge range - you can deal damage over a KM away, every neuron in my skull is screaming LL's or ERLL's. Now ok you make sacrifices to do that, but what do you get? You get 20 odd points of damage that you can deal from 3-4 times the distance of those mpls. Suddenly you don't want to be within 200m, you want to be within a 1000m. All in all I have to give this build 2 stars. On paper Vegeres build is a 3, and yours is maybe a 3, but I wouldn't consider it a strong one( sry the MPL's are a really bad idea). In practice, players trying this are going to get shredded. 2 Stars
maybe something like this is better for keeping distance and having some Defensive Firepower, if Enemies get too close:
Never said I can't brawl in a heavy. The reason we keep on talking about the armor is front-on this mech is all CT ( and its a BIG CT ), and those 70pts of armor aren't going to last you very long. This is why we keep on saying it's not very well armored. most brawling mechs will take you out in 2-3 alphas.
How is the torso on this different than a Cataphracts torso which is MASSIVE. Not being argumentative just wondering if this mechs hitboxes are screwed up.
Sure the 'phract has a big torso, not as big as the Orion, but it's big. However Front on this mech is almost all centre torso, as well as being huge, so when someone hits you front-on all that damage goes to the CT. On a 'phract there is at least some spillover onto the side torsos, this is not the case with the Orion. Ok someone hits you with a laser, some of that is going to go LT/RT, PPC's or Ballistics ? - CT every.single.time Now that means that when you are shot front on you've got 70 points of damage you can take before you're critted, on a 'phract its 160 because face-on its got LT/CT/RT that you're gonna hit, thats over twice the armor.
2/5 I just cant get this mech to brawl. The CT just soaks up damage like crazy. The arms are horrible to try block damage via torso twisting. Then you mount an XL engine in it, which makes it incredibly vulnerable in a brawl. Its not fast enough and even elited the response time on the torso and arm movement is horrible. Its a frickin giant. This mech may work for you, and thats awesome. I would never again run this loadout. Brawling just doesnt work in this mech. I think the best loadouts for this mech center around direct fire-support or second-line support. Maybe 2x PPC and an AC/10, or 2x LLas and 2x UAC/5, hell throw some LRMS in there for good measure. but not brawling.
I've actually had a LOT of success in brawling Orions but not with this particular loadout. The Orion has changed quite a bit since it launched thanks to some ninja patches I think they threw its way. The armor seems to distribute damage much better than it used to. That being said it is STILL a massive heavy and easy to hit so when I saw brawling I mean to say CAUTIOUS brawling. Standing toe to toe with anyone is almost never a good idea but getting very close (less than 100 meters) (with backup) and using terrain and cover to your advantage you can do some serious damage. The Orion is the first mech my noob arse has ever gotten 7 kills with.
