Gauss mechanics change and their affect on builds

I think they should just stick to what the novels said it did. In the clan invasion novels they talk about a gauss. They state you couldn't fire your laser weapons quickly after to full effect because of the drain on the plant. All MWO needs to do is just implement either a delay of firing anything right after the gauss, or just lower the out put damage of anything fired right after.

This would not upset the purest as much, and effectively eliminate the alpha gauss builds.

 

Adding an "Energy Track" to energy weapons seems to me the most reasonable and elegant way to work out balance issues. Simply stated, sure you can fire the weapons again as soon as they recycle but the shot's energy would be lower based on the recharge and heat characteristics of the weapon type. After all, heat is the enemy of electrical systems. Also, I will never get the low heat of a gauss rifle. The barrel of the gun may not get hot but the capacitors/conductors would be near meltdown after each shot.

 

Nope, it isn't. You can make things worse, and this is worse. For exampe, they could have added Gauss to the PPC group heat list. That would have restricted the use in the same way as it restricted PPC boats.
But adding charge (time) to a ballistic (projectile flight time) weapon is just going to break the weapon. And that's a silly paradigma. If they don't want high Alpha build, either just restrict everything to small and medium lasers *rant, rant* OR don't make every mech an Omnimech.
Omnimechs are Clan tech if memory serves. There is a reason why there's a Jenner "D" and a Jenner "F" ... one is carrying MLAS and SRMs, the F has more armor and more lasers. At least that's how it's supposed to be. If you permitt players to modify the Mechs in an atypical way, you shouldn't go ahead and punish this. That's just silly.

 

Omni are pods, it doesn't matter what you place into them... There current hardpoint system has some overlap with Omni, but it's not really an Omni system. The year we're playing in has ER and Pulse tech, also clan tech. Not all Clan mechs are Omnimechs. The reason Yen Lo was able to mount an AC 20 is because IS mechs can also be modified. It's just not done frequently because it takes a skilled mechanic to know what you're doing.

It's like working on your car, if you want any shop to fix it, you use standard parts. If you have a custom shop, you can use custom parts.

Edit: This makes me think... should custom configurations be limited to only premium time? (not good for us, but good for PGI) basically premium time would be like hiring your own skilled mechanic..

 

What you are suggesting is "pay to win"
Do you think most stock mech have the slightest chance against a modified mech? Have you seen the crappy setup many stock mech have? Useless SHS is obvious a problem, but that weaponary system...

 

This is a pretty horrible. The moment the game goes into pay-to-win that will be my one ticket off of this mwo train.

 

That's why i said it would not be good for us. But don't you find it funny, that we all trash Stock configurations so much? Yet, Mechwarrior is all about piloting stock mechs. Some stock builds like the Cataputls, centurian, Trebuche, Firebrand, Heavy Metal and maybe a Hunchback, are actually good, but so many are not. Which, to me, is really sad. We do min/max some builds to the extreme, but some custom builds seem belong in the MW universe since they make so much more sense than the stock.

 

Honestly, I'm starting to get really pissed at all the nerfing they are doing.

In my experience (I haven't been here that long), first it was raising the heat on popular weapons, then it was that fucking overload scale (3x PPCs were never a massive, game breaking build), and now they are trying this bullshit.

Well, I got news for all MWO players everywhere (unless you already understand this next part, of course), as well as the MWO Staff. THIS IS A TEAM GAME; at this point, every single thing you are trying to fix with these damn nerfs could be fixed with a little in-game discretion. And when I say a little, I mean the kind of discretion you'd see in a five-year old.

Example; there is one particular mech build I hate with a deep and abiding passion. It was my absolute nemesis for quite a while, and though I would never post it in the chat, I would rage away behind my anonymous screenname every time I saw it.

This build was the dual AC/20 Jaegarmech. Every time I tried to fight this thing, no matter what kind of mech I was using, I got obliterated in nothing flat.

You know how I finally solved my problem?

This is how I solved my problem (skip to 1:00);

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZwuTo7zKM8

I ran the fuck away and let someone else handle it. I never again faced one of these ********* in straight-up combat again. I ambushed them, and ganked them, and farted in their general direction, but I never stuck around to face them in open combat again. And it was good. My team killed them for me, and I was never bothered by another dual AC/20 Jaegar again.

My point is this-no matter what your eventual solution turns out to be, there is no such thing as an insurmountable opponent in this game. If there is seriously an enemy you just cannot handle no matter how hard you try, RUN THE FUCK AWAY AND LET SOMEONE ELSE KILL IT. This is a TEAM GAME; that's what you're supposed to do when you get in over your head.

Staff member of MWO; do not punish players for creating powerful mechs. You will do nothing but drive away your most dedicated players, and MWO will most definitely turn into a shitbag.

 

lol brave brave sir cthulu

 

You can run away from a Whackapult or an AC20 Jaeger because of it's short max range. This is (one of) the limiting factor(s) of the AC20 build: it can't be used at long ranges. Gauss + ER PPC x2 has no limiting factors (besides weight/slots). It's usable at virtually any range, generates a relatively low amount of heat (heat per damage), requires very little ammo (gauss) to be effective, requires very little skill to use effectively, yet in the hands of skilled pilot can result in one-shots from 700m, and puts out 35 damage on a pinpoint (only 5 less than those dual AC20s). There's more, but everyone already knew how overpowered this grouping was before they started reading this, so I'll stop there.

I don't want to see only small, low-damage weapons being used. Obviously. But I also don't want them to be significantly less useful in every situation than gauss + ER PPC x2 builds.

Dual 20s suffer from long cycle times, HEAVY ammo, short range, heat penalties when fired together, and high weight/slot usage.

Gauss + ER PPC x2 suffers from.... high weight/slot usage (kind of).

The nerf isn't ideal, sure. But they need something, or we might as well sell everything in our mechlab that isn't an assault mech with this build. We can rename the game LOLALPHASTRIKEWarrior Online.

 

I like when people say stuff like, pinpoint damage requires very little skill to use effectively. Really? So when I peel an entire shoulder off from 500m out, poppin a wheelie mid air after a 180 tart turn over hills goin 50+ kph, other guys doing 80 down side of a mountain, while attempting to piss screen-shake-inducing LRM poop down upon me, thats very little skill, eh... Inter-fucking-resting.

I mean, does 'effective' in this case refer to being able to fling damage out wildly if you aren't aiming for specific components? Cuz if so, it's like every other MW weapon setup that ever existed, in that regard. No, better yet, more like every wep ever invented, period. I could hit you in the head with a wooden spoon enough times to give you a bump. So technically it's effective. It just doesn't hurt a lot. Cuz it's not very powerful. A blind monkey with one hand could do this in game with a wooden spoon attached to a nuclear warhead, but I doubt it's truly going to be 'effective' even if it hits some of the time. Especially against other people who are trying to be 'effective' with whatever wooden spoon projectile nuke cannon shit they got up their sleeve.

I think there is a legitimate misunderstanding about what constitutes 'skill', and 'power'.

Power is PPC + Gauss, etc. Power is seen in meta archtype builds that are rigorously constructed with top play in mind and are vetted in that environment, to be quite specific. Of course, this trickles down - or to put it more aptly, bubbles to critical [meta] mass.

Skill is taking that weapon loadout and placing shots where you want them to land, consistently, against other skilled players. For the fucking clutch win. For dominance. For the GG Close.

I have yet to see anyone in top ELO carried solely by power, with very little skill. It just doesn't happen. I see people trying to float up on merit of power build crutching, aka tryharding, in tandem with other tryhard stuff like 'giving a fuck' and making PUG stomp squads. That's not sustainable, to be honest, unless you parlay it into wedging your foot in the door with a solid unit whos willing to develop that work in progress type of player.

Issue is, of course, prevalence. This is why other weapons are not as common - cuz their power is less, and the ability to wield powerful weps like PPCs is unrestricted (by way of access to the weps, and ability to mount/customize mechs with them). I think the solution is to bump other weapons to a place where they are incentivized to be used in various roles and capacities, thus pushing the meta off of the stagnation. Wanna fix the whole damn thing? Fine by me - but it has to be done by making other shit fun [ie, good in practice and theory] without watering down the whole experience into a pillow fight.

It's difficult to gauge a visceral reaction to something like, 20 SRMs hitting you in the ass during a chaotic brawl at the end of a round. It's much easier to quantify a headshot 90 secs into a round as something like, "omfg did you just see that?!" which is why you have so many noobcakes netmeching builds, trying them out, punching a bit above their weight, and stagnating the meta in regards to the average player. Nothing says "I gotta try that shit out" like a 35 alpha to the head/back.

That reaction is completely normal. So is the whole "I think that stuff is noob, I don't do it, but of course if I tried I could do it as well" mentality. It's same shit people say when they see a guy hit a great home run, or hear some awful Jay-Z song from his new album, or see Keanu Reeves acting in any role. Pretty easy to sit there and put it down, but I suspect most (not all) people who do that are attempting to justify their own insecurities. I don't blame them. I sorta feel pity. Why? Because I know that if the people who enjoy using X wep, or Y wep, or Z wep, if those weps were as powerful and fun to use as some of the better weps like PPC/Gauss/etc, then these players too could be showing off their skills, having fun, and wielding the type of power that they desire. But alas, that ball is in PGI's court. Anyways, I have no sympathy for the whiners, who want to nerf other peoples enjoyment and will to kick ass with the strength they have learned to correctly maximize potential... to be, in short, effective.

I'm just tired of people referring to certain combos as 'skilless'. That doesn't make any fucking sense. Skilless is some noob getting their shit punched in by a Flamer 4P, ok, I can play that game too. I defy anyone in here to actually prove that a weapon is skilless. That's fucking demented, misguided, and asinine.

Nothing personal, not directing this at anyone, might even post this on main forums at some point.

 

I'm going to take Soy's thing and do it my way;

In the current incarnation of MWO, there is no such thing as a "noob weapon"-a weapon that is so powerful, simply mounting it on a mech guarantees good results. Lasers require you to hold them on target for a while, SRMs are slow travelling and hard to lead, PPCs and Gauss require high spare tonnage and have very slow recharge times, etc. etc. etc.

Let me make this very clear to you-if you have a problem with a particular mech build, and you cannot use either video or pictures to prove that it is routinely (more than 80% of the time) the best build in all of MWO.....

[size=14pt]I am going to call you a coward. It is that ******* simple. To fully understand that you just got your ass kicked (or even that you have difficulty with a certain build in general) and to flatly ignore the possibility that it's your fault, is full cowardice in the true sense of the word; the sense that lead old-time nobles to duel each other to uphold their pride.

[size=14pt]More than once, I've been piloting some "skilless" PPC or Laser or Gauss or AC Heavy/Assault boat, and I've gotten my ass kicked by some rinky dink Spider with 3x MLas and spastic seizures. I am not a bad player by any definition (take a look at my old Hunchback PPC video-that's my old standard), and to listen to some baby bitch and whine about "PPCs/Lasers/Gauss Rifles are mean!" pisses me off like few things do.

[size=18pt]IF YOU WON'T BACK DOWN AND LET SOMEONE ELSE HANDLE IT, AND YOU DON'T LIKE GETTING YOUR ASS KICKED BY A CERTAIN BUILD, STOP WHINING AND LEVEL UP.

 

I've alluded to it before, I'll do it again:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgN1sLcAQnw

 

I posted a huge OP in game balance on main forums, it was sorta based on my shorter rant a couple nights ago in this thread:

http://mwomercs.com/forums/topic/134124-betaphract-a-beta-soliloquy/

 

well, im not a friend of nerfing weaponsystems, but also i dont like to face half of the enemy team with Dual PPC+Gauss Builds (what happens too often) nor having half of my team with such Weaponloadouts.

My suggestions:
1. Introduce new Weapons, which let us build (even) more versatile/attractive/effective weaponloadouts.

2. Improve the Matchmaking-System with limititation to the tonnage classes/Chassis. I experienced too often 5-6 Atlas/Stalkers in a team, while the opponent team had much more Lights. Usually the Assault-Team f***ed up, even with plenty of Dual PPC+Gauss-Builds.

3. Implement new Game Modes! E.G. Sniperwars on some very special Maps, LRM.Wars, Shotgun.Wars, SRM-Wars, Classic Capture the Flag, Last Man Standing, etc.
In some Game Modes most players wont use Dual PPCs+Gauss Builds, because that maybe would be ineffective.

I think with such Extensions every player can be more satisfied than it is now with simple Weaponnerfs.

 

I dare say I have been playing with lots of multiplayer mech games. I may not be good, but I am halfway decent and I can say I know the systems reasonably well. For the record I have been playing things you guys never heard of recently, some arcade mech game in the form of Border Break from sega (completely customizable + respawn with class system customized weaponary set to choose from) I am also doing Gundam Kizuna in the arcade pilot pods, something you guys would wet your pants for.

I think the current issues are :
1) Crude complete map randomization.
Some randomization is good, but complete randomization is not. If there is a schedule out there that would show the daily map randomizations people can prepart it accordingly, with different mech setups for different map sets)

Say, one day you have a series of 12 vs 12 on caustic, terra therma and desert. The other day you may have 8 vs 8 colony and forest. That way people would try new builds to suit the map series. The maps are still somewhat randomized, but there is a theme. You can change the setup daily or every few days.

2) A crude point system.
Many of the mech games give you different points for different things. Sure killing would be a majority of your point income, but other things counts too. Games would give bonus points for killing people inside a base, carrying flag/items, guarding a base zone that is in combat. Hack even dying while dfending your base gets you some points, and repair works (not functional in mwo). These are usually doene per click in small incremnts, to encourage people doing those roles. ''

There are also points for doing haressment by running around a few enemies on your own, or trying to capture an area to creat distractions (this one may not be good for mwo).

Other things we have already like savior shots, spotting discovering enemies and the like.
All those encourage different functional builds.

3) Bad matching system
Basically, they should match the two team in a game by weight class and tonnage. Currently I have seen lots of one sided matching. The ranking system of ELO is also a problem, but that would be on another point. You need a good weight class balancing system to make a balanced game. Everyone have seen those rediculous all lights vs slow assaults game before, that is simply no fun. Well, unless they have special functions where you can run a group of say 12 lights against 8 defending Heavy/assaults or something like that. But that would go into special game modes.

4) Ranking.
While I do not agree, some games would match games with player ranks to balance things out. They would also give slightly better awards fir high rankers. I would not advertize that as it would penalize n00bs too much. HOWEVER, giveing higher rank players a bit more weight would encourage players to rank up and play with people of their own level. It is easy to tweak your win/loss ratio. And with nothing to attract players to level up, they can simply funk a few games, drop down to a lower rank and reap cbills/xp like no others.

You can't stop that really, but can encourage them to pick on someone their own size by giving them something extra. Like, if there is some fraction war, a high ranker would contribute a bit more in bonus to the giant win/lose scale between fractions, and things like that. It is less on personal gain, but seeing you name higher on frational chart is always cool. Plus, you can give them special decals when they run as a high ranker. Decals and icons and things are good cause they will not ruin game balance, but is cool to see.

5) special game modes and events.
Basically you have special game mode events you can join for a limited time, just for the fun of it.
Some events would use premade mech and setup, like snipers, lights with MG, ot mdiums with zzero armor points,e tc... use your imagination. You will be awarded a lower amount of xp in the form of gdp for joining and playing, or just have xp given to the premade mech used. This would be fun for everyone and would be a break to the regular combat we do. For those who worry about win/lose ratio you do not have to make the events count on those. Maybe the winner of the event can be awarded with some cbills or decal or something. The premade mech can be a new mech so every player get to try, mybe some of them would buy the mech casue they like it. If not, they may like parts of the setup so they will use it on their builds.

Other events you would have to bring your own mech that meets a certain requirement, like less than 30 tons with no armor and energy weapons only.
These things would open up new ideas for everyone.

Obviously the good old ctf and protect the ammo cart and protect the building would be nice, but there are many things like that too.

*Conclusion*
My point: Things can be more fun and less bleak. A crude bleak system leads to crude bleak similar builds.

Currently you cannot really tailor your build too much according to your battlefield/tactics cause you don't even know where you are fighting in. And most of the time you are just killing things as fast as you can. If you know your combat areas you would do things like less DHS for the cold climate, a faster mech for a bigger map, more cap oriented on conquest day, etc.

You want people to play some other config, GIVE THEM A REASON TO. Nerfing is never a reason, that would only tell me to deck up my min/maxing on another setup. The results are the same, a simple vicious cycle. You nerf, we move on, you nerf again, we move on. So either you make the system so complex that it is not playable to anyone but the vets and experienced, or everyone end up throwing crappy cottonballs at each other. Either way is no fun.

Telling people to "pull punches" are never a good way to balance things.


For those who wonder what arcade game I am talking about (you will never get this in america. BorderBreak can easily be ported to PC/Console, gundam kizuna have a PSP version, but a pilot pod is just divine):
Gundam Kizuna
http://www.gundam-kizuna.jp/aboutkizuna/index.php

Border break
http://borderbreak.com/

TL;DR
Things can be more fun and less bleak. A crude bleak system leads to crude bleak similar builds.

 

You get this in every game I have ever played as an MMO...World of Tanks...the T50-2 is too fast, the T-92 hits too hard....nerfed and eventually removed. War Thunder...The Yak -9T is too powerful cry. Eve, damn griefers need to be stopped from killing people in empire...and so on and so on and so on.

The bottom line is this some players will always want "easy mode". They don't want to have to think or learn tactics or learn what works. Ive played this game for just over 2 weeks and I have already figured out if an LRM boat is shooting at me...get closer than 180 meters and kill it. If a PPC boat is tearing me apart get behind something until I can get close THEN kill it. If a dual AC20 is shooting at me run away then kill it at long range and if I cant kill it from long range wait until he is distracted or out of his very limited ammo THEN kill it. I say this...if a person wants to bring an all PPC build to the party let him if it fits on his mech and he can still walk why not. If I get stomped then oh well. I don't die in real life and don't lose money so whats the problem.....those F(&@#!! SPIDERS on the other hand..... RAWR

 

I can understand in things like WoW where there are fractions, and things may be unbalanced. But since in NWO everyone have access to the same things, what is left to differentiate between players are... skills! (fine, the ping too but we cannot do things with that)

Some players need to learn to get better. That, and there should be a type of fair ranking system so similar level players should play against each other.