3rd Person View.. Impressions?!

I would love it if 3PV was used (or could be used) when spectating. I think it is MUCH more aesthetic when watching the game being played and it would prevent a bit of situational awareness for dead teammates with the minimap being gone.

As it is now, I cannot use 3PV as effectively as 1PV because:

• The arms are locked.
• The drone/camera lag when jumpjetting or twisting violently is a huge handicap for accurate firing.
• Crosshair bobbing when walking is just an added annoyance, especially for long shots.
• And, of course, lack of a minimap really hampers the player's situational awareness.

Also, without the minimap's visual torso positioning data, I have found it sometimes hard to remember where my legs are pointing on some mechs where I couldnt visibly see my legs (especially after jump jetting and spinning around in the air)...letting me know just how much I depend on that. I started to use the torso indicator on the compass much more because of it. Just funny to me (if I remember correctly) that one of the primary reasons they implemented 3PV was to address the "torso/legs" pointing issue for new players.

 

So whats the best solution for the future? Drop 3PV or keep it? Id say keep it but separated queues.

 

http://mwomercs.com/forums/topic/73078-3rd-person-its-coming/page__view__findpost__p__1423764



[sub]ps - dear pgi... if you aren't gonna pay me to be on your team, at least unban my forum account so i can prognosticate more good ideas from the ether so we can all watch you try and implement them poorly[/sub]

 

After my gaming PC crashed and burned in May, I took a hiatus from gaming for the summer. But with autumn and winter drawing closer I decided to throw together another gaming PC. After downloading MWO and launching the first game in months, it came as an unpleasant surprise to look at the game in 3PV.
I bumped into a light mech that was standing right in front of me because my mechs torso was hiding it.
I stumbled around like a newb because having one vector for the torso, one vector for the mechs movement, and one vector "point of view" made it harder to navigate.
And instead of feeling immersed like being IN the cockpit of a mech, it felt like looking at a flock of mechanized chickens.
I died quickly, logged off after this first game, and started installing "Guild Wars 2".
The next day while checking my guild's forum (who is not into MWO by the way) I thought I might do a duckduckgo to see if this POS of 3PV could be OFFed.
It turned out it CAN be shut down, but I still find it unwise to impose 3PV as a default setting, with most players being rather negative about it.
So - I'll give MWO another try, but to be honest: If 3PV would have been enforced (or is being beefed up to the point where it becomes the "setting of choice") then for me, MWO stops being "mechwarrior" and instead will just be another mech themed game that I don't care to play.
While installing MWO - before I learned about 3PV - I was pretty hyped about the Phoenix project and would have dropped the 80 bucks for the overlord package IF ... well if I hadn't played 3PV afterwards. Right now that's what's keeping my purse in check, putting 80$ down for a game I don't want to play ... hmmmm ...

This is not a QQ post. And it's not about "not being able to deal with change". It's about deal-breaking changes to a game that profoundly change the character of what you originally signed up to.
I'll give you a few examples:
Star Wars Galaxies - SWG - came out as a realy great, novel game. Sony went and entirely changed the game into something different, loosing a lot of players in the process.
Age of Conan - for me, the dealbreaker was a massive class nerf of my main character, a tempest of set, from an AE damage dealer/healer into a CC breaker/worse-than-a-priest-healer. That made me quit AoC for good, and I never looked back even after it became F2P. Having your customer's efforts wasted because the devs don't give a damn is something you can do ONCE to a customer, then you'll be effectively dealing with an ex-customer.
Everquest (1) - was welcomed as the new saviour in an MMO world that consisted mainly of Ultima Online (a 3PV game). Why ? Not because of quick character development - it was a massive grinder, with death penalty and equipment loss if you could not retrieve your stuff from your corpse. Not because of the versatile classes - there were many one trick ponies, and even something as trivial as running faster, getting buffed, resurrected, or bound to a new city required finding someone of a suitable class who was willing to go out of his (or her) way to help you.
It was such a great game because you really could immerse in this game - in first persion view.

So - yes, I have a pretty firm opinion on 1PV vs. 3PV (at least in this game). I also have a pretty firm opinion on game-altering changes.

TL;DR: I'm not into a mech themed 3rd person shooter. If it's not 1PV it's not authentic, and I won't play it.

 

Press F4 and it will switch to 1PV then go into OPTIONS and make sure the 3PV option is unchecked and you will no longer have to press F4 unless you want to. Space Magic Bandaid!

 

Ok, Im not for or against 3rd person view, i enjoy them both at their proper times. What i'm not really understanding is the magnitude of the hatred for this 3rd person. This game has been through a lot of changes and pissed a lot of people off along the way. Why is THIS one the deal breaker?

In Dota 2 they implemented a system of behavioral reformation by having people report some asshole/feeder/racist/whatever and the reported player would end up getting "low priority" resulting in playing with nothing but Russians and Brazilians and no game exp, bonus item drops or anything ( this game is completely designed around communication, so imagine that) and also being completely muted in game (cant chat of any kind on any level) from 1 day to 1 week depending. The system is completely automated and is very abused. Also, once this was put in, the game lost probably 30% of it's entire player base and is still losing more every day. At this day, Dota 2 still has a much smaller player base than what it did even at start-up. Dota 2 isnt going to die soon, but it is dying for the moment. And this is one of the largest, most popular, most played competitive online games ever played. More so than LoL, or HoN, or CoD or even WoW (PvP competition, not just daily log-ins).

All of this happened because 1 feature was implemented when the player himself, from the very start, had a mute button but didnt want to use it. Kind of like turning your 3rd person view off. This entire game (MWO) is burning right now because of one of the easiest to turn off, non-game changing ideas was implemented.

There comes a point where a person has to accept responsibility and handle things for themselves. Turn the damn 3rd person off and its not an issue. If you're going to rage quit and destroy the very game you love, dont you want it to at least be over a legit reason?

So they lied to you. I get that. It wasn't intentional though, as best i can see. And on top of that, the game companies, in the end, have to think about the very survival of the game and make sure it stays around so they can make their rent and feed their babies. They have to have a broader player base than just the hardcore,immersion based people. Theres WAY more players out there that arent like that. example: play WoW on a role-playing server where you are supposed to chat like trolls or whatever, you are restricted with name options and other stuff, and basically RPing to the fullest. Now, how often do you actually meet the guy that does the full immersion stuff? very few and far between, even on the hardcore RP servers.

They also apologized. This is big. When was the last time a game co. apologized for damn near anything they decided to do? They fucked up and they knew it. They had to do what they needed to do to try and get more players for us to play with, and we reamed their asses for it. But they are still going to use it on some level or another. I know we ALL would like to just look at our mechs running from time to time even if its only in the training grounds.

It's kind of like braking up with a girlfriend when you've been together for awhile and you HAVE to be an absolute dick, even if you dont want to, to make sure she understands its over. MWO has to be that dick and implement a feature you dont like to make sure they can survive, even though they know its going to hurt you. Hell, they didnt even fully lie to us as we knew 3rd person was coming long before it ever did. we even had time to prepare for it and it STILL blew everyone out of the water.

Like i said, i understand people are upset, but to THIS level? I'd say its a little uncalled for. Personally id say the nerf to machine guns is much more offensive when its a weapon that NEEDED a buff but got a nerf. 3rd person you can just turn the damn feature off! whats the problem?! It's like having an annoying ass ringtone on your phone. Change the damn ringtone, dont throw the phone away.

 

i play LoL since two yrs... and Riot Games do every month a patch, with major buffs and nerfs on several Champions, always changing the gameplay (because they need to because new things get into the game). And in the forums, there are always people complaining, and usually they post in the forums, not the other ones. thats normal. So dont be too shocked, if you only read complains. You cant satisfy all players.

I also play WoT, where 3PV is the only mode - no cockpitview! So i can live with 3PV in MWO, as long as they fix some matters to round it out for competitive play. I understand, that it looks unfair, that in 3PV you can scout better over the area, so giving some advantage. But EVERY player has this advantage. From this point its fair. If you dont use it - your own fault. I hate Snipers too, so yeah, its really aweful, if they can shoot you from nowhere. But hey, keep cool. PGI will nerf the Sniperweapons to a grade, where they arent OP. They will buff/nerf every month the game to find a better balance. Its like in LoL or in other MoBa.Games. You cant say, there is one feature you dont like, so the game is shit. If you dont like, you may quit. Your right. But many other players will join, because they find the feature cool. Example WoT.Players dont play in 1PV, because they want the overview on the battlefield. So maybe we will have some WoT.Players in Future. lol

Dont be so upfucked, be patient and lets see where we will be in some yrs. I myself believe that PGI can make MWO really great (after official release), even with all the mistakes they did and will do. They are learning from the reactions of the community and they will improve their communication. I dont think they are sooo dumb to not learn.

BTW I didnt buy Project Phoenix until now, its tooo xpensive in my view. In fact i find all Hero.Mechs too xpensive. Maybe i would have been upset as well, if i payed sooo damn much money and get disappointed, . So Ill keep buying some MCs for Mechbays and Skins from time to time, that will be Good enough of Support for PGI from me.

 

[quote author=Vergere link=topic=3011.msg18619#msg18619 date=1377362885]
Kid's these days, they never read the manual...or check the options...
[/quote]

Guys I already know how to switch cameras and I also set my options to start in 1PV - also it's been a few decades since I've been called a kid *vbg*

If you would have read the Wall Of Text instead of just the TL;DR, you'd have noticed that I wrote:
[quote author=Marec link=topic=3011.msg18572#msg18572 date=1377341149]So - I'll give MWO another try, but to be honest: If 3PV would have been enforced (or is being beefed up to the point where it becomes the "setting of choice") then for me, MWO stops being "mechwarrior" and instead will just be another mech themed game that I don't care to play.[/quote]

 

This is more an upheaval about their attitude towards the community than 3PV itself, but I'll leave that to the official forums.

On the 3PV matter, I'm biased since I never wanted it but lets take a look at it. Was it needed? Like at all?

Heck, this whole premise that this is a "new player help" help is flawed. How can we expect new players to learn the game while playing on 3PV when they don't have access to the minimap, there is no fine aiming, on most mechs we cant even see the legs(one of Russ's reasoning's).
Ironically, this helps more the current players who are already adapted to 1PVbut can exploit the advantage of peaking.

It feels to me that this is a poorly implemented feature and would dare to say that it was rushed to be ready for the official "Launch".

We have so many other other issues that could have been worked on like collisions, game modes(we're stuck with 2 for a 1 year now), Community Warfare( I'm starting to doubt we will ever get it), Hit Detection(Again), UI 2.0, the usual bugs that persist since closed beta (even tho things got way better here) and a proper tutorial would have been great for new players.

I haven't played for a few weeks now as the game feels stale to me and with the recent events, it seems I wont be returning any time soon.

 

I'll throw in my 2-bits since I've been thinking about it. I feel that 3pv probably good for the game overall. I have actually had several friends try the game and then quit because they could not get used to torso twisting. This seems crazy to me, but I have been playing 1st person mechwarrior games since they came out on the snes, maybe before, I'm probably biased. As it stands, my anecdotal evidence does seem to point that players new to the IP have trouble identifying the fact that your legs are not always pointing the way that you look. 3pv solves this quite well and is probably necessary to grow the player base much beyond the simheads that we have now.

Now I've tried 3pv and I personally hate using it. It removes the immersion and the way aiming works just feels wrong to me. I believe that most of the current player base feels this way, and they are afraid that some people are going to exploit them because they don't want to bother hitting f4. I think 3pv is weak enough right now that this only matters at the highest level of play, which I have no real desire to reach. MWO is something I do between school and work and guitar. And for that purpose the game is pretty good right now. My biggest concern is that new players are not going to really be helped out by 3pv as it is now, and all of the coding time that PGI has spent on it is going to be wasted. The game is still not very friendly to new players, and they need to work on that, badly. Community can really only go so far to help out newbies.

 

So is wallhack.
I accept all justification for 3pv (noob friendly, European friendly, narcissist friendly, etc), but not this one. It's not "more complicate", it's abuse.

 

Well, lets be honest here...seismic sensor does the wall hacking job much better, even after the nerf. And in 3rd person there is no radar so no Seismic Sensor for the 3pv viewers. And i'd much prefer my Seismic. Or is the Seismic considered cheating to?

 

You have a point.
I still think seismic sensor is a more coherent "wallhack" than 3pv. Plus, it has maximum range, it only helps for close range encounters.
(but I agree this module is too powerful)

 

My first post on this noble site, and I'm doing so in a 3PV thread. Hopefully not a bad start!

Anyway, one thing I've not understood in this discussion is that in the original table top (at least when I played it) there was no concept of Fog of War. For the most part, you could always see enemy movements. MechWarrior Tactics still works in that way. Now, MWO is by no means a "port" of the table top, and I wouldn't argue for complete visibility of the enemy team, but it doesn't seem "lore breaking" to introduce abilities that allow you to see more than the cockpit of your mech allows. Especially with the disadvantages it introduces as well.

 

I think the most logical thing for accepting 3PV is to iron out the bugs, but make it take up a module slot.
It toes not have to cost loads of cbills even. The only thing I ask is to increase the time switching between modes of 1PV and 3PV.

After that you can use the stupid 3PV all you want at the cost of your module. I would prefer filling the slot with seismic or other stuff and play in my 1PV instead.

That, and I have fun hunting enemy beacon-fags... they are my first piority.

 

This is actually a really good idea. 3pv taking a module slot but being a free module for anyone to obtain. I like it.

[quote author=TVsBrent link=topic=3011.msg18901#msg18901 date=1377611871]
My first post on this noble site, and I'm doing so in a 3PV thread. Hopefully not a bad start!
[/quote]

and welcome to the site!

 

There's No mini map...may I ask you a question? In 1PV, you are provided with sensor monitors, mini map, weapon list and ammo, mech body status and etc...and In 3PV you are asking for a mini map? Putting mini map in 3PV would make it seem legit for other people because first, you can't find a mini map outside of your mech; second, it is so classic to see your mech together with the map which is impossible and will never happen in real life; and third, it will just add up to the things blocking your view in screen and it would be harder for you to play in 3PV (and who would play in 3PV if their mech is blocking the enemy...now how are we going to aim right if you can't see your enemy in front?)

Yes, why would you fight in 3PV if you know your mech is blocking your enemy in front???

•I use both when needed by pressing F4
-1PV is better because unlike 3PV, you can see your enemies in front and you can see what your mech can see and unlike the previous mechwarrior games in 3PV, the weapons are alot more dangerous and fighting in 3PV is a disadvantage in MWO (just like the enemy hunchback earlier who doesnt know how to switch back to 1PV looks so pathetic at aiming enemies and lost his fight against a legged jenner). I only use 3PV to see how people see me in their computer, screenshots, and during missile warnings so I can somehow dodge some of the missiles
-For me, brawling in 3PV ruins realism and the feeling as a pilot xD