Casual MAD-4HP "QlusterfuQ" (8xSRM6+A STD300)

Thread in 'MAD-4HP' started by Excalibaard, Apr 16, 2019.

  1. Excalibaard

    Excalibaard 101 010 Staff Member

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    While technically this uses the stock engine it could be considered a budget build, until you realize that the cost of Artemis and all SRM6+A launchers comes close to about 5M CB.

    Straightforward build already tried by many. Added AMS for how sluggish this is compared to the Cyclops Q. Invest in ammo and heat efficiency skills ASAP.

     
  2. Ghastly

    Ghastly New Member

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    MAD-4HP "Assault-Breaker" (8x SRM6+Artemis, STD350) + Alts


    Description:
    When people first talked about this build after the initial announcement, I dismissed it as a meme build. I thought it would be too hot, too spread out, and too slow. Having played it, I'm very happy to be wrong.

    This build has a monstrous 103.2 damage alpha (split in halves to avoid ghost heat). With Artemis and Missile Spread skill nodes, most of your volley of missiles will go into the same component on an assault mech, and very few mechs can withstand it for long. The Annihilator will spread most of it to the side torsos because of how thin the center torso, but it will buckle the center torsos of Fafnirs, King Crabs and most other assaults very quickly. It can get a little warm, but you can usually break an enemy 100-tonner before you get too hot, and I haven't had a huge heat problem when corner-brawling multiple mechs, as they tend not to poke at you enough to push your heat. I definitely recommend bringing a pair of skilled CoolShots for emergencies.

    Against return fire, while the 4HP doesn't get durability quirks like the aforementioned mechs, the "nosed" shape of Marauders, Nighstars and similar mechs make it very easy to spread incoming damage, as you don't have to twist nearly as much to shield a side torso, and just like the Annihilator your center torso is a comparatively thin stripe down the middle. Against many spread weapons, you might want to stare at them head on, so more of it hits your more-armored center. One thing to watch out for, on many nosed mechs there is a flat plate on the top of the mech which almost always purely counts as center torso, so you'll want to pitch up as you torso twist to spread damage, to hide that plate.

    In actual operation, this is one of the most dangerous corner-brawlers I've ever seen. With the surprising top speed, it also makes a good hunter-killer against other assault mechs and many slow heavies as well. When pushing into a firing line, it can't stand up to multiple mechs firing from multiple angles, but few mechs really can, so you'll want to choose what you push onto carefully. When you aren't corner-brawling, it plays more like a very heavy striker, rather than a straight-up tank and brawler, playing best when exploiting a weak point.

    This is a very new mech, and I'm still playing around with it. While I really like this particular 8x6A build, I am still tinkering with it. I will likely update the guide as time goes on. As always, feel free to discuss, and suggest changes.

    Video:



    Build:
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    The build is pretty simple. Big Standard engine, loaded with heat sinks, seven tons of ammo, side torsos filled with missile launchers.

    There are a few points against this build, mostly stemming from how all of the critical slots in the side torsos are taken.
    • Some people don't like how far shaved the legs and arms are on this. I haven't seen many people shooting the legs on these mechs, and "nosed" mechs don't typically take as much incidental LRM damage to their legs as more upright mechs. The arms similarly are very low-slung and don't make great shields for the, so I don't feel bad shaving the down as much. If 22 points off each leg makes you uncomfortable, I would shave a bit more off the arms to reinforce the legs, but I haven't had an issue with it so far. I would not shave any armor off the head, though. Like the Nightstar, the head hitbox is fairly large, and it's very conveniently placed to receive headshots, so I would leave as much armor as I could on it to hedge against lucky shots.
    • I've been told seven tons is a little light for this build, but even missing a node of Missile Rack in my skill tree, I've had multiple very high-damage games with this build and usually end the match with 250+ missiles left. If you're following my skill tree and are running out, I recommend picking up the second node of Missile Rack that I'm missing before you try to find how to add more ammo.
    • Finally, this build doesn't have any jump jets. I don't think the 4HP makes for a great pop-tart, and jump jets on this are only really useful for maneuvering over terrain. I think it's too big of an investment to take enough to matter, and there are better mechs and builds for that, even on the other Marauder II variants.
    I think the tigher spread with Artemis putting more damage into an opposing assault's center torso is much more valuable than a little extra ammo and jump jets to help you clear terrain. With that said:

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    If you don't care about Artemis, you can try this. It gives you a lot more wiggle room with jump jets, armor, engine, AMS, and ammo. I even threw CASE on this, to hedge against death from an ammo explosion, for example. I still think the Artemis putting more damage where you want it to go is more valuable.

    One thing I cannot justify, though, is a Light engine on a mass-SRM Marauder II 4HP. As you can see on this build, I have the largest Standard that can fit, without really sacrificing damage, ammo or anything else. I can't find anything to use the weight-savings on a mass-SRM build, and losing a side in the middle of a fight with this mech can easily push you into dying from heat damage. This particular version runs a Standard 360, but you can drop to a 350, save 3.5 tons and only lose 1.6kph without losing any heat sinks. I used the 360 here because I wasn't sure how else we could reasonably use the tonnage.


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    One variant I've also seen, and seems to be getting more popular. Swapping four 6s for four 4s gives you critical slots and tonnage for some flexibility, and slightly better heat management. Additionally, if you're running hot, you're nearly heat-neutral, after skills, firing only the SRM4s. The trade-off, however, is that you 17.2 damage out of your alpha, and the cooldowns don't sync up making it harder to volley fire while still using the lower cooldown of your SRM4s and still twisting to spread damage.

    Speaking of SRM4s, the head missile mount is very tempting to use if you aren't running Artemis, but I've found that it's very difficult in practice to take advantage of it with this kind of build. SRM4s and 6s ghost heat firing more than four. It makes it difficult to fit it into your alpha. I've seen some people rapid-fire two chain-fired weapon groups to get around that, but it makes your damage much easier for an opponent to spread out, and I think you should run MRMs if you're okay with that.

    SRM2s don't ghost heat, however, so you could run five 2s and four 6s reasonably. I think it makes it a little difficult to use the available tonnage (just swapping from 8x6A to 5x2/4x6 frees up 16 tons), and changes the focus of the build from high-alpha build that can roll damage easily to a close-range DPS build that kind of has to stare at a target, and I think there are better mechs for that. I will say, though, if you do this sort of build you'll want to put the SRM6s in the first and third hardpoints in each side torso, as those are the hardpoints that are clustered tightly around the cockpit.


    Skills:
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    (Kitlaan isn't generating permalinks for me right now, will add one later)

    For skills, as with all missile-focused mechs, I went down the left side of the tree for almost all of the missile-related nodes. I was short a few nodes and skipped Missile Rack 2, though I did pick up extra Heat Gen nodes to help the build's heat efficiency. Because of the build's heat, I don't really recommend picking up extra Cooldown nodes that are in reach if you cut some of the other trees; I think there are more pressing things to put skills into.

    I picked up almost the entire Survival tree. While it doesn't get any armor or structure quirks like many other 100-tonners, I've had many games where the extra armor and structure has really mattered, and wouldn't recommend running without at least the left half of the tree.

    To help with damage rolling and tracking lights, I went down the left half of the Mobility tree for three Torso Speed nodes. I think this is the easiest cut if you want to put points into other things, as the Marauder II's agility is notably better than many other 100-tonners. You might want to instead put these nine points into the right side of this tree for some better handling, or to put into other trees.

    To help cool down and handle heat a little bit faster, I put 11 points into Operations to pick up three Cool Run nodes. With extra points cut from other trees, there are two more Heat Containment nodes that are close at hand, to push your overheat threshold a little further, and I could easily recommend the other two Cool Run nodes if you have a significant number of points leftover.

    As always, I put a single point into Seismic Sensor and Radar Deprivation because I like the information they give me. If you don't care, that's eight points you can put elsewhere.

    I heavily recommend putting seven points into Auxiliary for skilling up CoolShots. It's great to have for emergencies, because you can't always control when you have time to cool down naturally, and it can make the difference between finishing a mech that's pushing on you, or shutting down or cooking. Whether to put the point into UAC Duration or Advanced Salvos 1 is up to you, whether you want to run artillery/air strikes, or UAVs. I personally prefer UAVs, as the information really helps when corner brawling.
     
  3. Dagonus

    Dagonus Moderator Staff Member

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    Threads merged for identical weapons.
     
  4. Dagonus

    Dagonus Moderator Staff Member

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    If you're a bit crazy and expecting your team to NASCAR, this gets you the 1 ton of ammo in the right arm. There's no left armor, but as @Ghastly mentioned here already, the arms aren't protection on the MADIIs. The ton of ammo in the right arm will be your third ton of ammo used so less than half way through it should be gone and you have nothing to worry about anymore. Its deliberately in the right arm since NASCAR makes left turns and this way its protected by your big torso.
     
  5. CarloArmato

    CarloArmato Professional Potato Carrier

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  6. Dagonus

    Dagonus Moderator Staff Member

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    I'm yet to receive one on any of them. It's gotten hit in incidental fire, but I'm yet to die from it in any of the marauders. I've almost done it to one, but I had lasers so it was easy for him to shake off. Still 16 is usually enough. The extra 2 can be clipped back on in the JJ equipped NASCAR version by stripped 2 armor off the right arm. The arms almost never get really hit anyways.
     
  7. krevLL

    krevLL Insane Fire Troll

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    I died from a headshot while twisting away, so it's definitely a weak point. My case was probably more fluke, but the chance is still there. In contrast to Ghastly, I do run a LE with 8xSRM6s, and I absolutely have run out of 7 tons of ammunition. My mech is still sitting at 0/91 skills though. Ghastly also makes an excellent point for only running a STD engine, but in my case I went with the LE because I also run 4xMPL in addition to the SRMs for a bit of backup and pinpoint, and because I have a relative plethora of LEs in my inventory.

    All told I absolutely believe this style is the best way to utilize the abundance of missile hardpoints on this mech, as opposed to MRMs or LRMs. As long as you have even a bit of backup to sow chaos and confusion among the enemy, this build is excellent as a tip of a spear and not really anything can hold up to it solo. You do have to be a bit picky about the circumstances of the engagement though.
     
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  8. Dagonus

    Dagonus Moderator Staff Member

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    A lot of either 8xSRM6 or 8xSRM6A, I think, is about *not* being the very tip of the spear on certain maps though. You need to utilize cover sicne you lack the range to return fire or meaningful arms to sacrifice. Instead, you need to try to be second in line so that the enemy is trading shots with say a KGC and *then* you use your superior speed top burst ahead and hit them.

    Again though, its' map dependent. On Classic Frozen or Solaris City, there's plenty of buildings to give you cover so be the tip and get those missiles to the enemy. On something like Tourmaline, you have to really choose your direction of advance carefully so that by the time the enemy is shooting you, you're returning veritable walls of SRMS back to them
     
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  9. krevLL

    krevLL Insane Fire Troll

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    Yeah, definitely need to be picky about the how and when you engage the enemy. In my case the best example of being the tip of the spear was in the cave on Forest Classic. The enemy had essentially a full lance (Assault, heavy, two mediums and a PIR) in there already and had pushed two of our mediums out when I called that I was taking point on a cave push and so with those two mediums I pushed in and just murdered everything in there. If I didn't kill it I got the KMDD for it.

    But yes, in agreement with Dag, it's an excellent tip of the spear in certain situations.
     
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  10. Ghastly

    Ghastly New Member

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    Yeah....

    It's not great for walking into a ready firing line, there's better mechs that can last longer for that, but when you're pushing on a single hard target, or into any kind of vulnerable position it's monstrous.
     
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