Hello. Let's have this discussion. If this discussion has already been had then I'm sorry. Do you think macros should be allowed in MWO? A human, or seemingly any organism, when performing complex actions may produce different results in the physical manifestations of work from time to time. Surely, whether under stress or tranquil, whether feeling tired or well-rested, whether happy or sad, these states will all have varying degrees of effect on the performance of the individual and their physical manifestations of work performed, which in itself is not always the same every time as would be a computer program on machines running in their optimal states. No marksman has never missed the bullseye. No runner ever gets the same exact time consistently over and over. No MWO player, in the heat of battle, is going to be able to manage the complexities of the mech and fire his weapons the same exact way at the same exact consistency every time, right? Of course, unless they had truly acquired this skill themselves... or they use macros. I finally learned about 'UAC5 unjam macro builds' here and it finally made me realize why certain mechs such as Jagermechs or other mechs infamous for AC builds were extremely hard to defeat in battle when wielded by certain pilots. They seem to be always on point. Often it is not advised to face them head on unless you can overpower and kill them quickly or have your team with you. Should macros be allowed? Should usage of macros be a bannable offence? What do you think? Thanks
Well, speaking as a player who has used, and squared off against, macro mechs I ask "Why not?". In essence; the macro is the computer doing the work for the pilot. When you pull the trigger of an automatic weapon does not the weapon do the work? You don't have to strike each round yourself with a little hammer and firing pin. When a battlemech powers up do YOU handle all the reactor containment and balancing or does the mech's onboard computer handle all that? All you are doing is allowing the computer to dictate the firing sequence at a rate faster than pilot could do manually. This is efficiency in its purest form. Most of the time people complain about a macro mech because they have been obliterated by it; I've been there. However, at the same time I realize that "Shit, maybe I shouldn't just charge up on a macro mech and instead try to hunt him... wear him down... use a partner to ZOMGWTFGANG him or just play hide and seek until he runs out of ammo and then spank him". Guys that get shredded by a macro often times charge up the middle thinking "I can get to him before he nukes me". They thought wrong.
Macros are not cheating. All they are doing is automating something that you could do yourself anyways. They do not allow you to do something not possible without them. Some of the mechanics in MWO are quite silly, and require some interesting fingerwork to get right sometimes. If macros make the button pushing sane again, I'm all for them.
Welp. I misread that as Macross. I blame the Phoenix Hawk release. That said, I'm in agreement with both of these guys. I also want to add, if you're being rained upon by a guy with a Macro, maybe you should change your angle of approach. The problem with a high rate of fire macro, while nice and dakka, it requires a ballsy amount of face-time. Which is fine in a 1v1, but anything else, and he might end up facing a negative exchange.
Exactly. This is why I think it is a problem. I honestly think this is a silly comparison. What about 12 players using macro vs 12 players not using macro? I think this is obviously unfair. This is true and is one of the weaknesses of these macro builds. I appreciate your feedback, and helping me understand macroing more. Hell, if macroing isn't considered wrong by the devs in any way maybe I just may get into it sometime...
Unfair in what way? Should the MWO game to check to make sure people aren't using a keyboard, mouse or other peripheral that could have macro capability? As Azakael said, using an UAC requires an awful lot of face time. And even in 1v1 it forces the dakka mech to stare at the enemy mech for far too long. If the other guy knows what he is doing, your dakka mech will likely die first. As for that 12 v 12 situation, it comes down to the skill of the players. Just 'cause you have a macro that lets you have a lead hose, doesn't mean you are properly torso twisting to spread damage, or even hitting the right locations, or using terrain to avoid damage and so on.
You are, of course, entitled to any opinion you choose but arbitrarily dismissing a rebuttal without a reason is sort of like sticking your head in the sand and saying "your argument is invalid". LOL Why is it silly? It's statement of fact. In an age where giant stompy robots roam the countryside engaging in battle with laser and tank sized projectile weapons, with pilots strapped in to machines powered by fusion reactors no more than a few feet away, computers do a lot of the heavy lifting. A savvy pilot reads the terrain, a smart pilot maximizes efficiency, and warrior uses every weapon at his/her disposal. I hate to use a cliche but "Don't hate the playah, hate the game". PGI leaves gaping holes in their mechanics and smart pilots use them. As for your 12 with macro v 12 without? I agree with Gasboy; figure out the weaknesses of the enemy pilot/mech. Macro mechs are great at digging in like portable gun turrets but they aren't designed to run and gun as a group; especially if YOUR team is dug in. They point in a direction and mash the trigger until the racks run dry but moving as a group and trying to flush out an enemy isn't what they are designed to do unless the sound and flying dirt bothers you and pushes you to panic and move. It is what it is. Analyze, Adapt, Overcome. Figure out a macro mechs weakness (and they are many and glaringly obvious) then engage it accordingly. Unless things have changed drastically since I played this FPS game; some weaknesses - Jamming IS still possible, even with a macro - Some macro mechs have their dakka in the arms which you can blow off fairly easily; especially with teammates and coordination - Ammo dependent. Once the hose is empty its empty. Over, done with. Game over, man! - Heat can be an issue especially when trading fire for a prolonged periods of time on warmer maps. Just some stuff off the top of my head.
It is an obvious statement of fact that you don't strike the bullet with a hammer yourself because this is not how bullets work. Nobody takes fame away from the skilled marksmen of the world because the gun is shooting bullets for them. That is not how a gun works; people acknowledge that the person is shooting the gun thus shooting the bullets. The same way in MWO, it is acknowledged that the pilot be playing the original game which the developers made with nothing extra. No outside programs being used besides the MWO client. Macros are not included in the game by the developers. This is basically like saying, imo: "smart pilots will find that the game PGI made isn't good enough and should use outside means to enhance their gaming experience which have not been included by the devs in MWO." My point is that even if hypothetically using macros was less efficient, and made you less effective in combat, I still think they should maybe be shunned / bannable simply because they are not part of the game. Aim bots are bannable, right? Correct me if I'm wrong, but the logic used by some in this thread may be equivalent to: "Aiming can be tedious sometimes, so why not install an aim bot? You are still piloting the mech and making decisions! Hell, in the future they would have advance lock on target systems, anyway! Somebody using an aimbot will likely be too busy facing you and shooting you, so get teammates to ambush them, or stalk them, or adapt to this somehow." These are pretty good tips for fighting suspected dakka unjam macro mechs. Thx. EDIT* I don't want to start a campaign to ban macro users. I don't care that much, these are just my opinions. The devs should handle this however they can. Maybe they try by including in the readme / license (paraphrasing, here) "you shall not modify the game in any way using outside programs" but macroing may or may not qualify as this. To be fair, on a separate but similar note, I think the devs should tell people right out when they install MWO: "Having at least two extra auxiliary mouse buttons, for a total of at least 5 clickable buttons on your mouse (left click, right click, middle mouse button, auxiliary buttons A & B) may help in combat regarding management of weapon groups. A standard keyboard is preferred."
Eh, to be fair weapon groups are many and varied, and highly personal preference. I know some folks who use the number keys instead of mouse buttons to fire, and they do just fine with a three button mouse. And no, our logic to using macros is not the same as an aimbot. Macros ease issues of timing with ACs and gauss rifles, things that are tedious yet possible without the macros. Aimbots take away something that is practically the easiest thing to do in the game, aiming at an enemy mech. And the times you are unable to aim at an enemy mech (being circled by a fast light, target behind cover, target too high or too low, etc), the aimbot cannot help you. Making it essentially useless. And if it fires automatically when you can hit certain locations, it becomes glaringly obvious what it is. You don't like macros, don't use them. I dislike gauss rifles, and I am decent enough with ACs that I don't need a macro to squeeze out optimal performance from them. But I won't begrudge someone else using macros to help them. Someone wants to use an aimbot? I'm going to laugh at them as it attempts to shoot through buildings, the ground and and at ranges far exceeding the weapons it's attempting to use. Then I'll report them for several violations and move on.
Aren't the mouse and keyboard by themselves basically also the computer working for the pilot? I think macros are fair. They use more ammo and deal less burst in general and can't torso twist. For the rest the weapons stay the same. The only thing that you experience is more screen shake but that can be accounted for with experience and tactics.
You realize that the UAC5 UnJam macro no longer works right? I tested the various macros that are out there, (ac2 macros, guass macros are the most popular now). Tracked both using and not using them over 30 days and so no difference in my performance with or without the macros. The more I played with the Gauss macro the more I hated it, and the ac one was fun for how it sounded, but it had 0 effect on my scores.
Seconding TK while I'm here and skimming. There is no unjamming advantage to macro use any more. Machine Guns (as of march) do stand to gain 10% DPS as well as disabling 23 other player's sound, though.
Interesting. It has been about I would say close to a year since I loaded in MWO; looks like they have come a long way to filling the holes in the mechanics.
