Russ' Anti-Alpha Mechanic to Kill Ghost Heat via Twitter

I like some of your ideas and agree with several points:

true. That's why i find the current PSR/Tier System totally crap. It should define Player SKILL Rate, but in fact it is an EXP Bar, grind more with ok W/L Ratio, then up the Bar = up the Tier. Basically everyone could reach the highest Tier, which is basically wrong for ranking players against each other to make solid MM. But if you have a little mass, and keep having that little size, that doesn't make the game better either to create & keep top end quality.

very true. I see exactly the same problem - MWO needs a population of 5x the current size for each dedicated region server, but it is a doom-loop because - i deeply understand that you as a hardcore-player wants a very challenging unforgiving gameplay to get true competitive ranking against the best... with gameplay like "mess with the best, die like the rest". BUT to make MM effectively, the game definitely needs to grow playerbase first. The real hard work of game design is finding the sweet spot where an encounter is challenging enough but not frustrating or tedious. And imo MWO is not at that sweet spot, not yet.

Im not sure if we can translate the Tier System of WoT to MWO. Because how do you actually compare Mechs against each other? Based on the hitboxes / hardpoints / weight class?
We could maybe have separate rankings for each weight class. I suggest to further revise the Match Score System to reflect even better the actual Player Skill for every Weight Class. So maybe a Player X is superb with Lights, but is average with Heavies and bad with Assaults. How to put players into Tiers? For Example: On a daily basis compare each players weight class match score total points (normalized) against each other, rank them based on a relative skill comparison. Normalized total matchscore => Player Skill Score. Define number of tiers, and boundary values for each tier.

So if Player A selects a Mech of a specific Weight Class, where he is Tier 1, then he should be matched with other players, who are in the same Tier 1, whatever Mech of whatever Weight Class they chose. If a Player can't hold a specific Player Skill Score, he should drop to the next lower Tier. If he can reach the boundary value of the next tier -> Rank Up!

Again, the combination of several factors breaks the balance. Separatedly regarded Alpha Strike as a single factor was never a Gamebreaker. Default Convergence, rapid Target-aim with a good mouse just make a super effective combo, which doesn't reflect true Pilot Skill, but pushing Pilots to simply use Meta Builds. PGI's Solution(s) just made the Meta Builds shift from one to another.

... but doesn't the aiming mechanic in WoT work differently than in MWO - requiring a lot more skill, and is even more challenging at distance-shots? I can remember that it works like the convergence idea, which i posted earlier in pictures.

Spoiler: WOT Aiming & Accuracy

Why would it be a game/fun breaker? This would surely break effective High Alpha Strike Pinpoint Peak-a-poo gameplay, because you need actual facetime to make your perfect shot & and also gives the enemy a chance to react - if you still can kill that reacting enemy - THAT is actual Pilot Skill (imo)


Check up this discussion: https://www.reddit.com/r/OutreachHPG/comments/48c9zz/balancing_laser_boats_make_dps_lower_beam/

 

The skill in WoT doesn't depend on aiming the gun/turret. But from the actual driving of the tank, angling your armor, and understanding positioning and dps limitations of your tank. The competitive nature of WoT is more in the ability to bounce shells. Also aim doesn't require any skill at all in WoT, knowing where to aim does, but because there is basically a roll of the dice whether you hit or not and same story with penetrations. Alot of skill is lost in that pretty much random chance.

The WoT aiming reticle would kill mwo entirely. Ttk is excruciatingly long on WoT, even compared to mwo. The only exceptions being 1 shot tanks like the fv215b 183 and auto loaders that can kill with 1 clip of ammo and fire that whole clip in ~10s. Funny thing is, in WoT one shot kills are super duper regular occurrences. Like usually at least 1-2 per game, especially if there are TDs and artillery.

But back to the topic again, an aiming circle relying purely on chance sucks. Even though the circle/ reticle does tighten over time, that's just a terrible mechanic that would stack ontop of a terrible tactical decision. In WoT the stealth system allows for tanks to be entirely unseen and basically camp while their cannon slowly aims, in mwo foliage is garbage and utterly useless as camo. So if mechs would step into the open to wait and aim for 2-5 seconds, they'd just be wide open to enemy fire. But if they don't stand out in the open like a Bambi they can't aim and fire effectively. Pretty much ruining any skill involvements with movement and aim.

Punishing people with good aim so that people with bad aim can keep up isn't a good way to fix the game. People with bad aim need to be taught how to aim lol.

Understandable that children and the elderly will have worse aim. Guess they will have to run brawlers and just spam lol.

Just want to reiterate my disgust and utter hatred of the idea of lowering the skill ceiling of the game. Just so worse players can have a better time. There is always another way, PGI just needs to do their job and make information more available about how to build mechs and whatever else noobs need to learn.

 

@Saltasaur: Actually, going to go with 1) your list is surprisingly small comparatively AND comprises of many mechs that are not favored or commonly seen as well as the common ones, failing outright at addressing actual popularity in the lore and running directly contrary to your point and the proof I explicitly requested (the point about manufacturing and supply lines was nice, though) and 2) your definiton of boat is significantly more flexible than the common use, which means we're actually talking at cross points rather than to the same one. I asked you to back your statement up, not back yourself into a corner and activate the self-destruct sequence. Considering how much you and Blagg keep needing to clarify for each other, that's become the unofficial theme of this thread now, so there's that too. Between the two of you you're hitting most of the points I would have mentioned on either side, so I'll let that stand since I don't have much to add. Instead:

We're running into yet another definitional gap. Like I said, I'm not the lore nerd I want to be, and am limited by observation of parlance as used by the community...and to the point, your definition of boat just...yeah, okay, let's just address that outright. You're calling pretty much anything with three or more of the same weapon system a boat, if it's larger than a machine gun, regardless of its holistic loadout or comparative weight between competing systems (be they across categories, ranges, or both). So to be blunt: your definition of boat is not 'just' too broad, it's way too and you literally hung yourself be taking too much rope. I'm more than willing to let slide "boat with a backup weapon" as part of "boat", but many of the stock and modified load-outs on your list are considered mixed loadouts. Some still achieve high alpha a single range (Kodiak is topical, lets use it), but 8 MLs, 2x cSSRM-6, cUAC-20 is a boat? Point blank alpha is obscene, sure. 8 or more of the same laser system on a smaller mech is definitely boating, but for the brother-bucking bear that's less than 10% of its weight, accounting for about ~55% of its alpha (44% if double-tapping that 20), and is the back-up reliable weapon for when ammo runs out on the main guns? I can see what you do mean in this case by boat (multiple systems functioning at the same range to maintain high burst AND DPS within that parameter), but as seen floating around mechspecs and the main forum that's a mixed loadout with a well defined function by range and secondary characteristics (brawler), not a boat (something that sacrifices other possible weapon systems to go many, go heavy, and send the competition home).

It also needs to be said that I was pretty damn clearly being facetious to highlight that very distinction (definitional differences) as well as others to further a discussion, while you chose to instead act as though I insulted your mother and her cooking in earnest, and that anyone who could possibly disagree with you has no leg to stand on despite contradicting yourself multiple times even using only YOUR definitions. So, to wit, you've contradicted yourself outright repeatedly, you've gotten pissy with people FOR AGREEING WITH YOU, and you've decided to just take a proverbial dump on any disagreement as well. Why this matters to you: even people who agree with you are going out of their way to correct you on top of people who may or may not agree or disagree with you being functionally unable to talk to you anyway. Not a good sign. If I had realized earlier you were the second coming of Remarius's bad hair-day I'd have responded appropriately. You've got no less than two acts that you need to get together if you want to be taken seriously anymore ever, much less be great tastes that go great together leading to the convincing of others.

 

Punishing people with good Aim, who insist on 1) default convergence/pinpoint at any range (even though the Hardpoints locations tell you other) with 2) max Alpha Strike Power at any range with no penalty and 3) better Control Equipment (Gamer Mouse) just to keep their own Dominance on the battlefield. I still don't see a gamebreaker, just arguments to keep the game at the current state & frustrating for the majority of players.

But well, i give up. It's really hard to discuss with people of different POV. Let's see what PGI will give us before we get our Kodis.

 

My suggestion is
"Convergence Cooldown"
Everytime you fire, there is a cooldown time where convergence speed is quite obviously slower. The bigger the combo the longer this convergence cooldown time is.

This way you can still use huge alpha, but it would control rapid hits from some types of super alpha, like 6x PPC and what not. Well, unless you are not moving at all, but if you are standing still you are a fucking idiot to start with.

By lore you can say whatever you want I guess...

 

Oh Chatt.... what you have created here?

 

I didn't meenda! I swears it!

 

Lol... instigator!

 

@Karl TenBrew-
I wasn't being salty, I was just legitimately surprised to hear that you didn't think lore supported the existence of boat builds.
Your post was a little hard to follow, hard to tell when you were talking about me or blagg. I'm not concerned either way.

I like discussions and stuff. But a topic like this is nearly impossible to continue over the course of a week. Sorry for my inconsistencies but most of these were posted before or directly after work. So I'm not exactly 100% in the mechwarrior mindset.

At this point it's taking too much time, and in the end the discussion while fun for me, never would get us anything even if we did end in agreement. *shrug meme*

 

No matter how passionate replies on this thread became, it was all pretty civil and for that, you guys rock.

I think my main point of concern was the discrepancy in power between a light and assault mech with the same engine rating. I am typically an assault/heavy pilot and If I'm going to be penalized (hehe penal) because I prefer to use the Chunker with its heavy hitting weapon systems, than I would consider this "mechanic" a failure.

Poptarts were always a pain, but (in my experience) are not as bad as they used to be back in the highlander/cataphract inception days. I also have little issue with Gauss Jagers and do not really lament the high alpha builds. Y'all would have to provide me with an example because there is not really a "high pinpoint alpha" build that really springs to mind, which is why I can't seem to understand all the hubbub about them.

 

4x Gauss Assaults, bruh. Alpha'd a second apart, but DAMN they are brutal!

 

It was once the classic 2x Gauss + 2x ERPPC, with Clan Tech one of the most deadly builds, but now PPC Cannons have hitreg issues, so atm a Combo of (Dual) Gauss and LargeWubs comes to my mind for the highest output of Damage + Pinpoint + Range + Facetime in one affordable Package without the penalty effects by GH.

One Build was already mentioned here, which apparently is going for high Alpha Strike Pinpoint Damage plus Range. You can kill anything with some few Alphas without having OH issues:


Lets further min-max that build - drop the ERMLas for a third LPLas to max out the effectiveness of that build (pretty Meta huhn?)


some other builds due to the concept:



you can do similar builds for the Mad Cat with 1 Gauss, 2LPLas and additional PewPews.

You can use this concept for IS Mechs too (just inferior):


Any other Wub-Combo-Vomit is pretty high alpha + pinpoint + facetime + good range (can be buffed with additional equips). Mad Cat + Storm Crows come to my mind with quite good Mobility.

Imagine you meet a competitive Unit full of such builds?! In PUG you would not meet this situation, because guys there would use any kind of builds for the fun, but solely the fact that some smart guys could use such game exploit-oriented builds to wipe out the floor automatically leads to high frustration in many many games, is no good for game play balance. Look again the video. Imagine you play such builds in AlphaWarrior Online with RidgeWarrior Online Style. Add LurmageddonWarrior Online to it and say good luck & have fun to the majority of non-mix-max-builds-users.

 

Eh, fine. But my wording was precise. I didn't question the EXISTENCE of boats, I questioned the POPULARITY of boats...and, at the fundamental level, the definition of boat itself since it's used differently by different groups of fans.