KGC-000 "Machine Gun Mark II" (4x AC5, XL360)

I've been playing with the Machine Gun build (the 4x UAC5 one) and I dig it. The UACs jam a fair bit when in a pitched firefight, and I am always praying for more ammo, so I thought I would put this together. I am gonna give this a whirl and see whether a macro'd AC5 can compete against a macro'd UAC5 in CW.

A couple of things to note;
- Added an extra DHS. This is experimental right now to see whether I can lean on the AC5s more
- Has more ammo which will definitely help in CW
- Has a zero percent chance to jam these bad boys
- Has the same cool down as the UAC5 so macro should run about the same
- Has a little more max distance as well as 1240 versus 1200

 

I'm doing some testing now....

The UACs have a pause of 175ms between each shot and the AC5s have a pause of 350ms between each shot.That being said, once you master this thing I am guessing that pause will drop down to maybe 300ms? It is still a constant stream of AC5 rounds coming in your direction without the possibility of jamming which might increase your overall damage output with the mech in a CW match.

Don't forget that you can now carry extra ammo due to the decreased weight of the AC5 vs the UAC5.

 

King Crab 000(L) NUMBER #1
Basic Skills
4x UAC5s
1x UAC5 Cooldown Module
1x UAC5 Range Module

King Crab 000(L) NUMBER #2
Basic Skills
4x AC5s
1x AC5 Cooldown Module
1x AC5 Range Module

MAP: Tourmaline Testing Grounds
TARGET MECH: Atlas (Stock Mech)
RANGE: 300m (dead center on the torso)

WEAPON #1 - ULTRA AUTOCANNON 5
TIME TO KILL (UAC5): 8 Seconds (1 jam)
TIME TO KILL (UAC5): 10 Seconds (2 jam)
TIME TO KILL (UAC5): 10 Seconds (2 jam)
TIME TO KILL (UAC5): 9 Seconds (1 jam)
TIME TO KILL (UAC5): 12 Seconds (3 jam)

WEAPON #2 - AUTOCANNON 5
TIME TO KILL (AC5): 10 Seconds (no jams)
TIME TO KILL (AC5): 11 Seconds (no jams)
TIME TO KILL (AC5): 10 Seconds (no jams)
TIME TO KILL (AC5): 10 Seconds (no jams)
TIME TO KILL (AC5): 11 Seconds (no jams)

I think, what will happen for me, is that when the other variants become available for Cbills I will master this mech and then switch it over from UAC5 to AC5 and add 4 tons of ammo. The duration should be 8-9 seconds (basically what the UAC5 is now) and there will be a 0% chance of jamming.

 

i have masterd them but i dont quite understand why the ac5's dps will get a diferent speed boost from mastering then the uac5's
(i have adapted my macro for a masterd crab)

for prolonged firing (tested this with 1 UAC5+ macro and 1150 rounds) the DPS of a UAC5 ~ 3,946 the dps of a AC5 on my masterd crab (with right modules and so on) is 3.989 *(it took in total 24'17'' to fire all rounds by UAC5)

i plan to repeat this test wile i use a macro to simulate the duration of a avrage engament 6.5 s of fire and 6 s of down time (so any jams can reset)
i expect this to be significantly higher

i'v tested several diffent options (6 AC2 with chainfire macro (gets way to hot compared to normal fire), 4ac5 an 2 ac2's (to heavy in my opinion...) and ofc the 4x ac5 (has gr8 heat and is relible as oposed to the uac5's but lacks the the initial teror/ schok effect that supresses and makes them run of your enemys))

for CW the reliabilety and extra ammo may be more inportant, but i prefere there to bring 1 BJ and 3 jm6 DD (with 3UAC5's eatch XD) then a 100 ton mech..

sr for terible spelling

 

First, NEVER CHAINFIRE MACRO AC2s. They add to the ghost heat of the previous shot, causing exponential heat gain. Ghost heat applies to any shots fired within a 0.5s window, and each shot resets the 0.5s timer. So with AC2s having a 0.72s cooldown (no skills/modules) if you have a pair and fire them alternately when they come off cooldown you get increasing heat. Very roughly, according to the formula 0.06*e^(0.37*n), where n is the number of shots and e is the base of the natural logarithm (use the e^x button on your calculator). If you fire 20 shots with AC2s like that, you get 98 heat on the final shot alone. Needless to say you've long since overheated. http://mwomercs.com/forums/topic/127904-heat-scale-the-maths/

Calculating DPS isn't that hard.
Damage: 5.00, cooldown 1.66s (1.577s w/fast fire, 1.3778s w/ fast fire and module, 1.2533s with KGC-000, ff, and module): Damage/Cooldown = DPS. 5.00/1.2533=3.989dps for 1x AC5, so 15.96dps for 4x AC5.
UACs are identical if not double-firing. If you double fire there's a 15% chance to jam for 5s, so we can take that into account. An easy way is to consider firing 100 shots. 15 of them jam, giving a cooldown of 5.00+1.2533=6.2533s. The rest fire normally.
Damage: 5.00*2*85+5.00*15=925. Cooldown: (1.2533*85+6.2533*15)=200.33s. 925/200.33=4.617dps for 1x UAC5, so 18.47dps for 4x UAC5.
That's with fast fire and the module, of course. The discrepancy is probably due to the macro screwing up: jams tend to desynch the macros, causing shots to be missed and dropping your DPS. Unless your macro is jam-aware, it's best not to use it with UACs for long.

 

Thanks for reminding me, I've been meaning to add that to the google doc...

 

the macro;

macro for a masterd crab;
>pres key2
>delay 64ms
>relase key2
>delay 93ms
>pres key3
>delay 64ms
>relese key3
>delay 93ms
>pres key4
>delay 64ms
>relese key4
>delay 93ms
>pres key5
>delay 64ms
>relese key5
>delay 93ms
>loop 10000 times

(the uac5 is set on key 2)

as u can see it resumes fireing as soon as it comes available.

i think your math is right (i calculated it my self i the same way ) but i think the jamm percentage is of..
i have been serching the official foras and found 15, 20 and 25% ... thats the reason why i am field testing in stead of calculating

now if i make a graf with the formula ((5*2*(100-x))+(5*X))/(1.2533*(100-X)+6.2533*X)
((5*2*(100-x))+(5*X))/(1.2533*(100-X)+6.2533*X)=3,946
X=20,43865 ~20,44

so the jamm percentage is i think 20% not 15

 

Your macro will desynch if the gun jams.
Look at it as a macro for a single gun:
Loop {
Fire
Wait 628ms
}

Now consider a sequence.
Gun fires.
Wait 628 ms.
Gun fires (double-shot). Jam.
Wait 5625ms. Macro is 601ms into a wait.
Wait 27ms.
Gun fires...

So you get a 27ms delay after the first jam. This accumulates.

Just did some tests of jam percentage. 100 double-shot attempts each (so 200-jams rounds fired per test, thus 1868 rounds fired), counted the failures. 13, 18, 14, 15, 8, 14, 9, 14, 16, 11. Mean = 13.2% failure rate. Standard Deviation = 2.93.
So a 15% jam rate is consistent with the data (within 1 standard deviation) but a 20% jam rate is not. That's 2.3 standard deviations out, possible if you got terribly unlucky but unlikely.

There's a rather obvious math error in your formula to find jam percentage given the way you determined your DPS. Discovering it is left as an exercise to the reader.

 

your way to determine the dps;
"Damage: 5.00*2*85+5.00*15=925. Cooldown: (1.2533*85+6.2533*15)=200.33s. 925/200.33=4.617dps for 1x UAC5"
my formula ((5*2*(100-x))+(5*X)) / (1.2533*(100-X)+6.2533*X)
now substitude by 15 and you will see its exactly the same...
my formula ((5*2*(100-15))+(5*15)) / (1.2533*(100-15)+6.2533*15)
my formula ((5*2*(85))+(5*15)) / (1.2533*(85)+6.2533*15)
925 / 200.33
=4.617

as for the 27 ms extra wait after the jam its a difference of 0.48 % extra time ....

ps if i have made a mistake pl tell me becaus i cant see it...

 

So much maths!!! You guys are smawt lol

The point is that the ac5 version allows more ammo and more reliability while not being as shock and awe impressive. Its a trade off.

The DPS differential is actually not that big when you take real world conditions in to account.

Dead mechs deal no damage. All it takes is two or three UACs to jam and a direwolf to now you down.

 

Total nitpick, but there's a typo in the thread title - not sure if that's something an admin can clean up...

 

Magine guns are awesome. Far better than simple machine guns!

Your formula for finding your DPS in the first place (total shots * damage per shot / shots fired) gave you 3.946 dps.
Your formula for finding the jam chance from this (10*(100-x)+5*x)/(1.2533*(100-x)+6.2533*x)=DPS is where you get the error. You're underestimating the percentage of first shots fired, because you're continually using the macro until you run out of ammo. The jam chance is NOT PER SHOT. IT'S PER DOUBLE SHOT ATTEMPT. You're trying to calculate it as per-shot, which is screwing you up. UACs CANNOT JAM ON THE FIRST SHOT OF THE PAIR.

Very true. There's a trick for using UACs optimally IMO, I'll have to make a video. It's not chainfiring them...

 

I look forward to seeing it; then I can forklift all this data out of this area and put it in the Benefactors area and attach it to the specific macro thread that is in there

Also, MAGINE Guns are the new thing! All the cool kids are using them.

 

i am using the exact same formula as u use!!!!!! if u can calculate the dps with this formula you can do the same the other way and calculate the jamm chance (X) if the dps is kown

ps i dont divide by shots fired but by time pased....

 

i did some calculating (and after that i bought it immediately) but pure for AC5 fire suport the dragon N1 has a higher DPS then the 4 x AC5 crab
it is 18.25 dps and thats without counting the erLL you can mount on it alongside (with its ~20.5). the AC5 king crab has a dps off ~16.
the only down side is that is more fragile and can carry less rounds (300 in my build*)


modules ; AC5 cooldown, range , radardep and zoom

ps are there any more hidden gems like the dragon N1 i dont yet know about?

*i mearly mean the configuration i use, all credits go to solhama and his "shenron" build

 

after reading the full "shenron" tread, sr to be a wise ass i did not know you alredy knew