Which Trebuchet should I buy next?

I already have 5J and a 7M. I am thinking of getting a third one to complete the elite.

Which Trebuchet should I buy next?

I notice the 5N being basically the same as the 7M (other than jj), are they quite different?

The extra engine rating of 3C seems to take loads of tonnage though.

Need more info in 7K also, cause I rarely see them.

 

As you can see here, aside from their hardpoints, each Trebuchet sort of has its own special perks. The 5J and 7M both have jump jets (and have 5E-1M and 3E-3M, respectively), the 7K and 5N both have higher torso twist ranges (although still not as much as a Hunch/Cent), and the 3C can use a bigger engine. Your assessment that the 5N is basically a 7M is incorrect, it is closer the 3C (4E - 2M).

After having played 4 Trebuchets and my experience with other chassis, here is my take on them:

The 3C's main perk is its higher engine speed, but you are right that it takes a lot of tonnage. If you are going to use a 325 or smaller engine (which, based on my optimal speed charts, you're about best with a 295-340 XL engine in a 50-ton mech), then the 5N would be a much better alternative, as it has all the energy weapons on its arms, and it has a higher torso twist.

The 5J and 7M don't really have a good balance of weapons, IMO. The 5J is an energy boat with 1 missile launcher (not much for LRM power) and the 7M is hindered by the NARC tube (meaning unless you put SSRM2s or an SRM2 in there, it's usually going to be 3E-2M instead of 3E-3M). They are still my favorite Trebuchets, but that is because of the builds I have that capitalize on jump jets.

The 7K is, IMHO, absolutely terrible. Centurions make better ballistic-missile-energy hybrids, and in order to use all three weapons a Dragon would have better speed and firepower. The big issue is the weapon placement. The only weapons on the arms are the missiles, which come with 2 tubes. I find this to be thoroughly insufficient for LRMs or a decent number of SRMs. You can do SRM2s here, but SRMs on the arms don't work too well in my experience (they tend to hit a little wide, especially on humanoid arms). You can put SSRMs on there, but there's no point IMO to have your only arm-mounted weapons be something that can track with arm movements even if mounted on your torso.

IMO the only thing the 7K has going for it is that it can do AC/20 and SSRMs, something nothing else 60 tons and under (except for a Hero Mech, the Flame) can do. If I'm doing a light-hunter, though, I'd rather go with a Centurion CN9-A with an LBX in the arm and 3 SSRMs.

Overall, I like the 3C with a 340 engine, I like the 5N for it's ability to be a fantastic brawler, I like the 7M for JJs and streak potential, and I like the 5J for JJs and energy potential. The 7K is just...meh.

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Okay, my rant is over. Because you have the 5J and 7M, and because the 3C is only better than the 5N when you compromise on tonnage, I would say go with the 5N for your third.

 

Thanks!
You are right. My 7M is armed for JJs and srm/ssrm indeed! and I have my 5J for JJs and energy poptart.

I will probably get a 5N then, since I ususally use a 300 engine.

Thanks!

Also thanks for reminding me that I have one more Centurion to buy. (Although I already have the CN-9D and the YLW)

 

As skribs said, the 7K is pretty bad. I'd flirted with the idea of making a CN9-AH clone, but the arm-mounted streaks are in every way inferior to an arm-mounted AC20.

 

Looking at this orginal post and Skribs response almost 2 months after original post date - I find this information and 1000 foot overview accessment VERY valuable. Thanks for both the orignial good question AND the concise, clear headed response.

This community has some realy insightful pilots and mechgineers... and when they come out and contribute we can learn alot very quicky. Thanks for the time!

 

There is no absolute rule on XL being viable or not, it depends on a lot of factors.

• Lights can always use them, they don't have enough armor to be slow.
• Same goes for most mediums, unless they have zombie abilities (Centurions for example)
• Heavies are troublesome, on some like the Catapult it's a given due to the side torsos being so small. On others, maybe not a good idea. I depends on the hitboxes, the speed it can achieve and the role it is intended for. Sometimes a larger XL means you increase your twist ability and that can prolong your life if you are good at twisting and distributing the damage. Most times heavies are meant to take damage and that purpose defeats the XL concept.
• Assaults are even more difficult, on most it's a bad idea as they never achieve much speed anyways. But there are exceptions, the Victor and Awesome for example.

One rule of thumb I use is, can the mech achieve 80+ kph with a XL? Can the XL give you enough speed or tonnage to make the mechs effectiveness outweigh the increased vulnerability? Then it may be worth considering.

Mediums as is discussed in this thread is generally in need of speed as they also don't have enough armor to slug things out with heavies for more then a few hits. A Trebuchet is a skirmisher or a striker, it's not a first line, smack in the middle brawler. It's great in support roles, IMHO.

 

Well, to put this simply:

lights: Always XL.
Mediums and Heavies: Depends on speed, hitbox, and need.
Assaults: Almost always STD.

Things like hunchback are almost always on STD, the hunch is a easy target, as for treb... XL is probably the way to go. The speed and agility is well worth it, not to mention the extra tonnage to play with.

 

My experience (mechlab only) is that the Trebuchet is a bit too light to do everything I want with the hardpoints, and an XL engine makes a good deal of progress in ameliorating that.

Almost all the Trebuchet I've encountered in the field have run XL engines, but the big problem I see is that the Trebuchet has a CT like a matchstick.

 

I mastered four Trebs, I only kept the TBT-7M. With an XL-320, I can get up to 114kph, mount decent armament and have lift-off with 5 Jump Jets. Makes an exceptional swift striker or a very fast sniper to be able to reposition and hit targets from multiple locations, either splitting or pinning them.

For my play-style the other variants of Trebuchet are very lack luster. Any one other them has better alternatives. For SRM/Energy, Centurion beats every mech, every time. For a quick Ballistic platform, I'll take a Blackjack with it's higher hardpoints. For an energy boat, Hunchies can't be outspoken. (even if they are ugly lil mutts) And if you want an LRM platform, the Kintaro is the beast to play. For me, the TBT-7M is the only unique Treb with a decent armament of missiles, energy and the ability to jump.

Striker setup:


Defensive Poptart:

 

I like mostly either 7M. Great mix for SSRM and beams.
5J is ok also if you want a poptart. But nowadays you also have the Blackjack.
As for 5N/3C, it is a matter of bigger engine speed or better turning angle.
Oh on the side note, with the Phoes coming out there are a few jumpy 55 tons out there, and some may actually be better than Treb.

I was using something like this.


And a variant with LLas/LPLas instead of PPC, plus more DHS and BAP