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Upcoming PTS.

Discussion in 'MechWarrior Online - General Discussion' started by Tollas669, Jul 8, 2018.

  1. Tollas669

    Tollas669 New Member

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  2. Aylek

    Aylek Administrator Staff Member

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    skribs likes this.
  3. Excalibaard

    Excalibaard 01110010 01101111 01101111 01110100 Staff Member

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    I expressed few views on the discord, which basically came down to this:

    PTS - Brown Sea keeps requesting PTS, but there are not enough participants to populate PTS for meaningful data. As such they changed the QP modes to 4v4, which is a very different environment from 12v12 for laservomit. 4v4 will just be scouting with heavier mechs, and laservomit is not a problem in scouting at all due to the act it's much more close ranged and fast paced. Only offenders there were cSPL which were nerfed earlier already. Combined with the assumption that most people playing PTS will have strong feelings about the clan lasers, I fear this will just be an energy-draw level shitstorm.

    Lasers: - I'm very intrigued by the fact that they actually increased the ghost heat limits for the LPL and ERLL. This alone will remove dominance from the HLL. Since they're ALSO nerfing HLL, I fear that the relative power of cERLL in meta builds will be too much in the end. Time will tell as I'm not a meta player.
    - I like the consistency between clan and IS medium lasers now. MPL dealing 1 extra damage over ML, for extra tonnage and less duration. Good job on that part, now you know exactly what to expect from the weapons equipped. I feel they gimped the damage a little too much compared to IS showing very little actual difference. 5.5/6.5 would be better (still with significantly increased duration and cooldown ofc.)
    - I'm disappointed they did not do a similar consistency check as they did for the mediums for SPL or LPL, clan LPL has always been a pet peeve of mine as it has vastly longer range than IS LPL while the IS LPL has a vastly better duration in comparison to other lasers in IS than cLPL does.
    - Finally I'd like to see a pass about standardized falloff ranges (maximum range). They started playing with that because of the range of the aforementioned cLPL interfering with the role of the cERLL and they've never corrected it. Standardize it to everything having the expected 2.0x, or standardize it per laser class. If pulses had a falloff range of 1.5x optimal and ERLL had a falloff of 3.0-4.0x optimal, with similar optimal ranges, that would for example keep the long range of ERLL but significantly reduce their effectiveness at extreme range, making changes such as upping the ghost heat limit not quite as powerful as I expect they will be in the current PTS changes.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2018
  4. Tollas669

    Tollas669 New Member

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    Sadly i can't really comment on these changes based on personal experience because i don't have any clan mechs. Though i am currently saving up cbills for atleast 4 of them to have a complete drop deck that doesn't contain the same two or three mechs (just a personal preference).I thought about it too that things needed a balance pass but not really exactly like this. I may try out the test session though see if i can get a better insight on the proposed changes and maybe post a few helpful stuff. The last time they waved the nerf hammer people were crying loud for a PTS but now that they have it they dont want it at all. I think people should atleast give it a try and provide constructive feedback maybe PGI will listen but if not and the changes get implemented either way well theres nothing to lose anyway.
     
  5. Tollas669

    Tollas669 New Member

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    Though i have to say that Mechwarrior online is not alone with this balance problem as Planetside 2 had or even still has some of the same balance issues as this but there they had 3 sides to balance with multiple vehicles and weapons instead of 2.
     
    Excalibaard likes this.
  6. Excalibaard

    Excalibaard 01110010 01101111 01101111 01110100 Staff Member

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    People being unhappy with PGI's decisions is the 8th natural constant of the universe.

    The disappointment is just a never ending echo from both sides. PGI has showed on several occasions to have some really bad implementations to fix problems in the game, and bad PR (Russ' 'cheapskate' comment comes to mind) as if they don't play their game or engage with their community at all. The most recent example about not playing their game is that they change 12v12 to 4v4 because of low player count, and apparently do not realize the complications this has on their quick play data. However, most of their changes have the right idea behind it, but a bad approach.
    On the other side you have KeyboardWarrior Online in the vitriolic official forums and Reddit, which are often very vocal about PGI and their pracitices. The majority of these people (I'll have to generalize here) are often people that see their meta way of being the best player in the game being nerfed, or bad players that get rekt by Lurms (also because PGI's implementation of targeting information is good in concept but bad in execution). Time and time again they scream about never playing the game anymore if PGI changes something, or shouting completely non-sensical and non-practical ideas way beyond the scope of what PGI can provide.
    A vast minority criticizes the right points and provides better implementation ideas. There is a movement for an overall balance pass as a collaboration between several well-informed players that have put together a document about changes they'd like to see. PGI noticed them, but in the end they can't outweigh the amount of negativity that most of the Brown Sea (official forums) throws at PGI.

    Conclusion: there are no winners in this debate, and it's keeping itself in a loop. PGI tries to implement good things in bad ways, getting yelled at, and concluding that the good thing was a bad thing, or to pay no regard to any community voices once they get fed up. This has happened multiple times already.


    I own a few clan mechs, cERLL are powerful and have been the de facto weapon to use in faction play for several years due to the size of the maps which allows them to make use of their strength: being able to deal damage at extreme ranges. The current ideas do not solve laservomit effectiveness, but they will shift the HLL+ERML meta into something else. (all problems with high alpha would be fixed if doing it 100% pinpoint without any effect from walking speed or mech weight was made impossible)
     
  7. Tollas669

    Tollas669 New Member

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    The cERLL change looks nice trading 1 point of damage for gh cap +1 but the heat stays 10.80 so isn't that going to be an issue with those?
    I've read a lot of the official forums lately and yes like every other competitive game this one has its "toxic" layer too just like the rest so when i've read the news about the PTS i was not surprised at all about the salt that followed.
    I think i did read that document what you mentioned, though PGI replied that the suggested changes were only buffs for weapons and that those changes would significantly decrease the TTK.
    Don't know if they would really that much or not but someone pointed out that if the TTK got decreased significantly and the game would be rewarding individual player skill above actual teamwork then it would basically become codwarrior online or what Hawken was trying to be. Though that game failed on pc for some reason but the console version is still going on as far as i know.
    This 4v4 idea could bring false data but i guess they have theyre reasons for doing so, maybe because of the amount of mechs that can boat large number of lasers and the combinations of said lasers and would give more precise data?
     
  8. Tollas669

    Tollas669 New Member

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    I remembered now that Baradul on his Youtube channel once said that theese huge alpha strikes are not okay. He was oneshot coreing some assault mechs with the Hunchback IIC in the vid. Would be interesting to hear his opinion on this or even Snugglestimes too.
     
    Excalibaard likes this.
  9. Remover of Obstacles

    Remover of Obstacles Benefactor

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    Clan Weapon Changes:
    Clan Gauss Rifle
    Weapon Recoil added to the weapon.

    Clan Lasers

    • Clan ER-Small Laser
    - Damage reduced to 4.4 (from 5)
    - Heat reduced to 3.2 ( from 3.5)
    - Cooldown reduced to 3.2 (from 3.5)

    • Clan ER-Medium Laser
    - Damage reduced to 5.25 (from 7)
    - Heat reduced to 5.7 (from 6.3)
    - Cooldown reduced to 4 (from 4.5)

    • Clan ER- Large Laser
    - Damage reduced to 10 (from 11)
    - Heat Scale Trigger Increased to 4 (from 3)
    - This means that you will receive the first heat scale penalty when firing 4 Clan ER-Large Lasers.

    • Clan Medium Pulse laser
    - Damage reduced to 6.25 (from 7)
    - Heat reduced to 4.5 (from 4.75)

    • Clan Large Pulse laser
    - Damage reduced to 11 (from 12)
    - Heat Scale Trigger Increased to 4 (from 3)
    - This means that you will receive the first heat scale penalty when firing 4 Clan Large Pulse lasers.

    • Heavy Medium Laser
    - Damage reduced to 8 (from 10)
    - Heat reduced to 7 (from 8)
    - Duration reduced to 1.37 (from 1.45)

    • Heavy Large Laser
    - Damage reduced to 16 (from 18)
     
  10. Tollas669

    Tollas669 New Member

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    That gauss rifle recoil is just really nonsense, or just i don't see the point to it?
     
  11. Remover of Obstacles

    Remover of Obstacles Benefactor

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    Just seems to be a token response. See we did something about gauss, but we really think it has been nerfed enough already.

    Also...
    See how dual heavy gauss is sooooo hard to use... 50 true pin point damage with little heat is fine.
     
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  12. Excalibaard

    Excalibaard 01110010 01101111 01101111 01110100 Staff Member

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    The way PGI recoil works is kinda the issue why it's a nonsensical nerf. Instead of having reticle bloom (tied to whatever stats or multipliers deemed necessary (speed, tonnage, weapon size, jumpjet use)) like any respectable shooter does, every weapon has 0 recoil, except for a few weapons where the reticle shakes a bit for a second afterwards. People are opposed to a little bloom because it lowers the skillcap and lasers will be even more powerful (because recoil on lasers is dumb), but I'm sure that can be balanced around and the 'lowering the skillcap' argument is bs. It just takes the top level from quick precise aiming skills and adds a level of stability management towards the 'mastery' of the game.

    On one hand, yeah okay, we're piloting mechs of several tens of tons.
    On the other hand, those weapons we're carrying are YUGE and cause enemy mechs to shake, action=reaction.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2018
    Tollas669 likes this.
  13. Tollas669

    Tollas669 New Member

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    They could go with current recoil mechanic of shaking the cockpit but not how it is currently implemented that it starts shaking after you already fired your guns but instead the cockpit could go shaking while your charge up is around lets say 80% and the more you hold the charge the more worse the shake would get but this is just a rough example.
    Id understand the need to implement such a mechanic if the clanner gauss would have more firepower than the IS gauss but they're completely identical in damage and range except for the less tonnage and slots.
    Personally i don't like using heavy gausses that much atleast i tried them on my Annie 1X when it was unskilled but they seemed to be very situational. In example they pop your sides with lrms or even just some longer range weapons and your dead (if you dont have case equipped but even if you have your still down to like 2-3 lasers) already because of the weapon explosions so yeah it is a devastating weapon combined with lasers in its optimal range but its just so easy to crit them out at range so i just switched back to the 4xlbx10 and some lasers loadout and did around 1500 damage in a pug drop in fp, but i'll give them another spin in the near future.
     
  14. Remover of Obstacles

    Remover of Obstacles Benefactor

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    [​IMG]

    Is the PTS removing armor quirks or un-nerfing clan heat sinks (skill tree disparity)?

    Effective damage is damage over 0.5 seconds. You can expect a competent pilot to react or twist and spread damage quickly or to have fired and gotten back into cover.

    Please double check the numbers. I threw the numbers in pretty quickly. Thank you in advance.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2018
  15. Excalibaard

    Excalibaard 01110010 01101111 01101111 01110100 Staff Member

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    nope, as far as I know they use the June patch for reference.
     
  16. Tollas669

    Tollas669 New Member

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    Judging by those numbers its just my luck to have started saving up on cbills for clan mechs in the shittiest of time huh? XD
    1.5+ and 2+ points in effective damage for IS pulses over the clan pulses plus almost half the duration? Whoa
     
  17. Excalibaard

    Excalibaard 01110010 01101111 01101111 01110100 Staff Member

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    They're just preliminary changes for now. IS lasers have always been more heat efficient with less total damage with less duration, for overall better Damage per Tick. Clan get raw damage and range, which is more useful in non-brawl situations.
     
    Tollas669 likes this.

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