Thread in 'RFL-3N' started by VanBurenPhilips, Feb 29, 2016.
The head and leg armor are a bit worrying. An arty or air strike hitting any of those body parts is gonna really ruin your day. Otherwise looks decent, but without dropping ammo or a dhs there really isn't a way to boost armor though, so not much room to improve without changing loadout. Could go to std ll so you could drop a dhs and raise leg and head armor a bit.
Engine / DHS (int) / Spd / Armour / Heat MWO (Smurfy%)
XL225 .....13 (9).......65.3......320.............1.24 (42%)
XL235 .....13 (9).......68.2......304.............1.24 (42%)
XL245 .....12 (9).......71.1......320.............1.20 (40%)
XL255 .....12 (10).....74.0......304.............1.22 (41%)
XL280 .....11 (10).....81.3......322.............1.18 (38%)
Actually, the 255 also has a slightly higher heat capacity.
Generally speaking there is no reason to go below XL255/STD250 if you can help it, unless your build is really needing that few tons and it is not too heat based.
I have this build on one of my 3Ns, except I traded ERLL for LL for typical pug play. The duration and heat efficiency is a better choice IMO, but it's still a tradeoff either way.
You can also run Ferro with 4t of Gauss ammo, near max armor, but no extra DHS.
Can perform well. Probably the smallest mech that can effectively run this loadout with room for minor personal adjustments.
If we ever get a 60 tonner with torso mounted energy and ballistic that'll be the day. Especially with 2 torso ballistics, it'd be legitimately 2 gauss capable with good ammo and speed.
But back to the topic Im just gonna repeat what solahma and I said. Dropping to std LL would allow for considerably better dps short term. Not often are maps long enough range that LL won't be enough anyway. Could even just try 2 erll, 1 ll or 1 erll, 2 ll. Just fiddle with it and see which you like best.
If you don't have the odd engine like I do (I have an XL of just about every damn rating sadly), you could just drop the extra half ton of ammo for an xl280, or swap it for a full ton and run xl265.
LL are 540 meters on this mech. That means you can touch people effectively to about 7-800. Plenty of long range to sync with gauss, and gauss up close is still decent because no heat. Ac10 fired with ll and so few heatsinks will severely hamper long term dps.
Also of note I got a decent few hours today with riflemans. I stand by all my numbers and statements from before. All accurate.
The std LL build has 3.41 sustained DPS with 10 dhs. 3 erll with 10 dhs has 3.10 sustained DPS. The reason my version had lower dps than yours was because you mount 3 more dhs lel. Even then they are almost exactly the same heat efficiency.
Second, who doesn't use an energy range module? It doesn't make sense to stipulate that you aren't going to use that module, don't be unreasonable.
I literally ran 1 ac10, 3 ll yesterday on the rifleman lol. I was trying out builds on every single variant. Not to mention on a marauder I've run 1 ac10, 3 lgpls for months and it runs hot as hell with 17dhs. Don't try saying "lgpls and ll are different weapons tho", they produce the same heat and the lgpls build is very toasty. Plus the ac10 still produces small heat spikes when fired, it's been enough to overheat me before when firing carelessly.
Not sure why you keep trying to question my competence and mech building capabilities. I am a pretty accomplished player in general. I have 500 hours, in match, probably 1500 more in mechlabs. Like what makes you think your builds and modifications hold any merit over mine? Why do you think I haven't tried every single build you've posted? Just because I'm suggesting improvements on your setup, that WILL improve its performance in regular queue. Doesn't mean you have to get negative about it.
Lol just saying, I've been playing this game 3 yrs longer than you. Unless you randomly have an alt that's been around longer than February of this hear hahahahahahahahaha. Have fun young grasshopper, I won't burst your bubble anymore. But being able to take constructive criticism is a big part of life. Not getting snappy and questioning it.
Now now. You both fucked up when you claim your build is "better". You can disagree with personalization (armor for DHS) but that doesn't make the choice wrong. They are simple trade-offs that neither of you are willing to acknowledge the advantage of.
Here is a list of direct comparisons using all the data:
Philip ERLL builds:
+ Max Range (~250m added "effective" range over LL)
+ Heat Dissipation
+ Sustained DPS
- Duration (effective damage transfer)
Pooty LL build:
+ Speed (4kph faster)
+ Armor (~50 points of armor)
+ Max DPS (shorter duration of LL results in higher burst DPS)
+ Duration (shorter duration of LL results in more efficient damage transfer, see "damage over duration" and "Alph over Max Duration" values)
+ Ammo (increased damage potential)
- Max range
Some points to elaborate on:
ERLL are not as heat efficient as LL. As you can see between the two builds, even though the ERLL build has 2 addition DHS, their sustained DPS is almost identical. Infact, their projected "damage till overheat" are even more similar (both 202 damage until overheat)
The LL build has an optimal range of 540m which is a very typical engagement distance. It's a range you can easily find and position yourself without being too far in the back of the team. It's a very reliable distance you shouldn't have to make a lot of effort utilizing.
The ERLL build syncs better with the Gauss range (triple range). At the edge of the ERLL optimal range, The gauss still hitting for 13.4 damage. You could, instead, take the Gauss range module rather than the ERLL range module. This would give you nearly identical optimal ranges, however the ERLL will not sync as well at extreme ranges of 1200m and beyond. IMO, ERLL range is more valuable to capitalize on the extreme range damage output.
So, in the end, there are many trade-offs. LL performs just as well as ERLL without requiring you to sacrifice tonnage toward additional DHS. LL have much better damage transfer due to the lower duration as well as syncing better with the Gauss charge time. On the other hand, the ERLL build performs MUCH better at extreme ranges of 800m+. So really it just comes down to what you're more comfortable with. IMO, and Pooties, the advantages for such extreme range are not as reliable for a typical match on random maps. If you're gunning for those 800m as much as possible, ofc you'd prefer the ERLL. However that distance of engagement is not guaranteed. Within 600m, the LL has many more advantages, even if the DPS and Sustained DPS look very similar with ERLL.
Nice write up Sol
Philip, I would suggest you just drop it. You're not adding to the conversation by arguing with Pooty. I'm not saying Pooty should continue, but this is how he expresses his opinions. There was absolutely zero benefit from posting your response in this last post (you and pooty). Nothing new, nothing learned, and certainly nothing is going to come from it other than more pointless arguing back and forth. You have the option to leave his opinion where it is. Because at this point you're both just arguing opinion, trotting in-place, defending yourselves. It takes two to tango and one to simply read an opinion and move along. You've both taken it too far off-topic, just leave it.
People quoting incessantly just lets them take words out of context. Read my last post beginning to end and it may make more sense. I was saying the 3 ll version I posted, which had 2 less dhs than the version with erll you posted, was within a miniscule margin of your build on heat efficiency. The large laser version allows you to drop those extra dhs, while maintaining damage output, and upping armor and ammo values.
I generally judge a builds heat efficiency two ways. Sustained DPS, and heat % after an alpha. This will tell you why I said your 4 erll build was too hot, with only 16 dhs it offers pretty darn low sustained DPS, and a high heat alpha to boot.
Also explains why I used the 3 lgpls, ac10 build as a benchmark, as a single alpha outputs the same level of heat. Letting me gauge the heat capacity of the loadout along with dissapation from experience.
As far as mounting the range modules, for a build that is being measured up for long range engagements makes sense. Why would you compare the loadouts at all if you aren't looking at their capabilities maxed out? Deliberately not mounting a range module on my version just to equalize wouldn't make too much sense IMO.
Also I'm not telling you to not run your version of the build. At no point did I say abandon it, or that you had to even try the LL variant instead. I just suggested, and because I offer adjustments on pretty much all new loadouts i see. Just happened that as of late you were posting alot of builds, so I posted alot of improvements (from my point of view).
"Just fiddle with it and see which you like best." - POOTYTANGASAUR LIKE A WHILE AGO IN THE THREAD!
The changes I posted were just suggestions. Criticisms weren't meant to just poop on you, your religion, the way you pilot your mech, and or the neighbor kid. Just to close out, while it is a bit childish. You were the one to change topics, from modifications to the build and suggestions, you brought up past builds which weren't even pertinent.
All is well. I don't have any grudge or anything against you anyway. Just saying I've been playing a while, experience can be helpful. I will say wisdom and age don't trumo all, but it wasn't a personal vendetta against you lol. I come on here to suggest modifications on builds, basically what this site is setup for. So I guess you were just surprised by how often it was brought up? I don't really check names of posters before I look at builds so I could usually post on 5 threads before noticing you own three of em lol. Good day guys, I'm going to sleep, hopefully that's the end of it!
Alright ladies and gentlemen, keep your discussions on the builds, and not on ad hominem. I'm talking to everyone who uses this forum, not just Pooty, and not just Phillips. Since the both of you have kept it civil so far, these talks may continue. However, if that changes, there will be consequences. I'm only issuing this as a warning to ensure further talks don't fall off the train of the discussion of mechs. Thanks, and continue with the optimization of this and all mechs. Remember, we all care about mechs on this forum. As such, we should treat each other with the same amount of respect. Respect the mech, respect the people.
I combined two of the suggestion in this thread. I have had a couple good games with it so far.
I use the guass and er for longer range shots, staying hull down. Once things get close I start using all weapon groups, mostly just the lasers though because I am still not good with guass at close range.
Great name, nice weapon combo!
Separate names with a comma.