MAD-3R "Oppressive Fire" (3xRAC2, 4xML, LE325, TC1)
4.8/5,

5 ratings

Thread in 'MAD-3R' started by Ex Redux, Nov 19, 2017.

  1. Ex Redux

    Ex Redux New Member

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    Bought this a little while ago, and didn't really like any of the builds. The 2xRAC5 build was alright, but I don't think it's efficient. 2xRAC5 require a standard engine that weighs 30.5t, but 3xRAC2, while weighing 4t more, lets you run a LE and saves you 5.5t. Plus, less spread, 50% more velocity, and 70m more optimal range. They usually don't jam at the same time either so you can basically just hold the button down and pummel someone in to submission.

    70 kph isn't the fastest ever, but you have really good range to compensate, and the build runs pretty cold. Takes a long time for the 3xRAC2 to run it in to the red so you have ample time to lay down a serious barrage of screen shake and muzzle flash.

    If you want more ammo (because I mean, who doesn't want more ammo to throw at heretics?) you can try this build too.

     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2017
    rinco likes this.
  2. Excalibaard

    Excalibaard 101 010 Staff Member

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    Why would you run this over 2xRAC5? 2xRAC5 does 33% more damage and weighs 2t less without ammo, and doesn't have to use the low-mounted 3rd cannon :)
    Just curious ^^
     
  3. CarloArmato

    CarloArmato Professional Potato Carrier

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    @Ex Redux I see your point, but I wouldn't use any RAC because this mech has excellent hitboxes and it would be a waste to not torso twist and tank with the left side due to the fact you have to face your target the whole time. From my experience, skilled players will pretty much always manage to shoot you at least once even after the first shots are landing: where and how much they will spread it's up to the player, but vomit lasers builds are quite effective against you, proven they are close enough, they do not panic and they know what they are doing.

    I myself have managed to destroy the right torso of a very similar Marauder build (2xRAC2, 4xML, probably a STD engine) with a 6xcMPL Linebacker because I've managed to poke him.

    But back to the build, I really don't like RAC2s compared to RAC5s: every pro I can think of (+90 m range, halved heat generation, smaller jam time, slower jam build up time) doesn't feel a good trade when you have to face +30% DPS (~20 instead of ~15) for -4 tons (20 instead of 24). I see the point of this build is to max out the suppression fire for a longer time frame, but using this build over 540 meters optimal range is really a niche role... I haven't calculated it, but 2xRAC5 should approximately deal the same DPS at your optimal range of 540 meters, so you should use this build over this distance to avoid receiving more damage than you can deal from 2xRAC5 builds. You also have to expose yourselves for a longer time and you can't trade or poke with RACs because you are gonna lose any trade shorter than around 5 secs of applied damage. Meh.

    Even assuming the wrong torso will be focused (the left one instead of the right one), you will lose speed and heat dissipation due to the fact you have equipped a Light Engine...

    IMHO is a very niche role and won't be as optimal as 2xRAC5 in multiple maps. The idea of longer and better suppression fire is good, but I'm really skeptical about how good it can perform compared to other or similar builds as @Excalibaard was pointing out.
     
  4. Ex Redux

    Ex Redux New Member

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    Like I said, you can't run a LE with 2xRAC5. You save more weight by running 3xRAC2 and a LE over 2xRAC5 with a Standard.
    3xRAC2 do 17.46 dps, while 2xRAC5 deal 21.82 dps. so it's actually only a 24.9% dps increase. But you loose the extra optimal range, you lose the reduced spread, and you have 25% higher heat generation. I think with the reduced optimal range and higher spread you will actually lose most of that 25% dps increase as well. Less shots hitting where they should be, and less damage outside of optimal range.

    I don't count that 3rd cannon as low-mounted, either. It's still not a cataphract.

    tl;dr 3 guns is more dakka than 2 guns. Praise the Emperor.

    You raise some good points, but there is only a bit more to it than what you posted. You have to remember that RAC5 have ~20% higher spread as well. They also have only 1025 velocity instead of the 1500 that RAC2 have. There are a lot of drawbacks to RAC5 over RAC2 and you're only getting a DPS increase. They don't even weigh less because you have to run a standard instead of a LE. 2xRAC5+SE ends up weighing 1.5t more than 3xRAC2+LE, excluding ammo. If you add the ammo differences in, RAC5 underperform even more. RAC2 have 240 potential damage per ton of ammo. RAC5 have 225 potential damage per ton. That isn't a lot in 1 ton. But overall it's the difference between 5t of ammo instead of 4t of ammo. So another ton wasted by RAC5 just to have the same potential damage.

    In summary

    3xRAC2 has 90m more range, 0.04 less spread, more damage per ton of ammo, 1.5t lighter (w/ light engine vs. standard), 475 more velocity, less heat generation, less jam time, less jam build up, 3 less critical slots, and probably more stuff I missed.

    2xRAC5
    4.36 more dps

    But give it a spin and see what you think in-game. Numbers don't mean much in MWO.
     
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  5. CarloArmato

    CarloArmato Professional Potato Carrier

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    TBF I've never noticed that RAC do actually have spread: the bullets were always fired so straight I've never noticed.

    Anyway, you made good points, but I honestly prefer a double RAC5 than 3xRAC2 for the better DPS: it's true that sometimes you will have an hard time tracking your target's movement (I can't tell about the spread, I've never noticed it) because I've used it mostly under the optimal range, but it is also true that you can't simply poke with these weapons.

    To make it shortest possible, when you get out of cover to shoot your target, if he manages to alfa strike you or to trade with you, unless you chase him behind his cover he will have won the trade against you. That's why its best used as a support weapon to help pushing the enemy team, even though you will have to be ready to move into cover to unjam.

    Anyway, as I stated eariler I would never use a Marauder for the simple reason you sre using an asymmetric build with an extremely long face time. As long as you face one enemy at a time and you prefire your RACs you can avoid your side torso getting focused, but give the enemy enough chances to face you and skilled player will focus your right torso. That's why even medium mechs like the busheacker are excelent with double RAC5: nice speed to push behind/around a cover, nice armor, nice hitboxes on both torsoes... But that's another story. Double RAC5 on different sides are the best, if we have to use the same torso then it's risky.

    EDIT: post patch and after a long time this build has better sustained / prolonged DPS compared to the dual RAC5 version, but suffer the same identical problem: long face time and focus fire. If you can manage to 1vs1 people this build grants a very good suppression fire, but if you expose to more than one target, be prepared to hide quickly if they manage to focus fire on your right side.
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2018
  6. Stripedbassblitz

    Stripedbassblitz New Member

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    5/5,
    Similar setup to what I'm using. Honestly have performed better with the 3rac2s than every other 3R setup.
     
  7. Remover of Obstacles

    Remover of Obstacles Star Lord

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    How is the heat? Would more cooling be worth losing the TC1?

     
  8. Joryl

    Joryl New Member

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    4/5,
    Good build :)
     
  9. anamiac

    anamiac Well-Known Member

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    What if we ran RAC/5's instead of 2's? It's a little slower, but I think the damage is higher?
     
  10. Excalibaard

    Excalibaard 101 010 Staff Member

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    @anamiac, explained in first post.

    I think 3RAC2 has a place over dual RAC5 now they've been buffed :) much better ammo/ton economy
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2018
  11. anamiac

    anamiac Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, I must have missed that.
     
  12. ShooterMcGavin80

    ShooterMcGavin80 Active Member

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    5/5,
    Yep, excellent build.
     
  13. TucsonKaHN

    TucsonKaHN New Member

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    5/5,
    This is, more or less, the configuration for my own 3R. Although it demands a lot of face time, which is counter-intuitive for the asymmetric build Marauders lend themselves toward, the sustained firepower from the RAC-2's is more than enough to catch a hostile off guard and scrambling for backup.
     
  14. Lorgot

    Lorgot Well-Known Member

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  15. CarloArmato

    CarloArmato Professional Potato Carrier

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    IMHO XL engine is always a bad idea on this mech: its side torsoes are very easy to isolate and focus, which means a quick death when facing an opponent capable of focusing the same side.
    XL on a marauder also means that if you are shooting someone and you have an opponent on your left, it could kill you by destroying your left side while you should still have all your weapons intact.
     
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  16. Excalibaard

    Excalibaard 101 010 Staff Member

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    I made a slot-perfect slower version with 4 extra DHS :) fire all day every day!
    This has taken its place as my new 3R build and I like it a lot as alternative to my RAC5 mechs. Esp since the RAC2s got buffed, running three of them is definitely a great alternative if you can't split the RAC5s to different components (which would nullify the weight advantage from being able to run light/xl engines with it over RAC5s)
     
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  17. rinco

    rinco Active Member

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    I put together a slot-perfect even-slower version with 1 more DHS and ton of ammo...



    This is now my favourite 3R build!
     

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