1.4.185 - Champion

Thread in 'MechWarrior Online' started by Excalibaard, Oct 16, 2018.

  1. Excalibaard

    Excalibaard 101 010 Staff Member

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  2. lord_auriel

    lord_auriel Benefactor

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    so the balancing wasn't really a balancing eh
    less alpha damage but significantly more dps for clans
    also dps increases affecting IS

    feels like TTK is even lower now or is it just me
     
  3. Excalibaard

    Excalibaard 101 010 Staff Member

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    I agree, TTK is much lower now. Burst 'DPS' is a bit lower because of reduced heat cap. But, most builds can still alpha comfortably in the new limit.
    But, the time between alpha's (sustained DPS) is significantly reduced due to ~50% increased dissipation, which changes the discrepancy between the HPS generated by weapons. Gaussvom can reportedly alpha 3 times now before having to cool, and it cools down much quicker.

    I like the idea behind the heat changes, but they don't 'fix' anything. The problem remains because they're trying to fix the problem with alpha damage by limiting the heat, rather than limiting the pinpoint of that alpha.
    90 damage isn't too bad if it spreads all over the mech, like it does with UACs, SRMs, MRMs, LBX. It's a problem when the alpha damage isn't spread over multiple components (and especially if it has a range that's long enough that mechs can be removed from the battlefield before getting in close range).

    Gauss PPC poptarts were meta because in skilled hands they fired everything into the same spot, even while in the air (and then had 100% damage reduction while in cover). Laservom can also fire everything into the same spot. Duration != Inaccuracy, it actually gives people time to adjust their shot to the twisting of the target while things like MRM salvo's can't be adjusted after firing. TT lasers always hit only one, random component, but that's simply not true in MWO, while all other weapons have a chance to hit a different component than the one you were aiming for.

    What needs to be done, is done in every good shooter ever (except MWO apparently). Reduce accuracy when firing too much, AKA recoil. It's important to keep some level of good accuracy, otherwise aim is not rewarded, and what's the point of a shooter then? But the degree to which mechs can keep 100% accurate even while sprinting, or where a flying 40t mech experiences the same recoil as a 100 tonner bracing itself/standing still from firing an AC20 (none) is ridiculous. The recoil that was implemented for HGR and active JJs is laughable, it shakes your reticle around a bit, randomizes the point you're aiming at every second, and That's Recoil, Folks!
    Gauss Rifles will always remain cool weapons that synergize well with hot weapons because gauss doesn't take much from the heat resources. But, once a proper recoil system is implemented, their high ranged alpha with lasers may just be balanced by stabilization.

    The problem of course remains that lasers wouldn't make sense to have recoil. So I'd say they just need their DPS severely reduced by doubling cooldowns or something while keeping HPS the same (maybe make pulse lasers a true 'pulse', low damage, low range, low cooldown, higher DPS laser). By making lasers hot and low DPS/ton, it takes some of the power they gain from being adjustable weapons.
     
  4. lord_auriel

    lord_auriel Benefactor

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    my 3x RAC-2 shadowhawk is a fire suppression beast, no lasers :)

    back to the topic.. i'd like to observe some more before I decide if tha patch was good or bad.. I mean I had some terrible matches, 0-12 stomps and such, that were over in less than 4min.. and I had other matches that were great

    I can't really put my finger on it, the whole "feel" of the game changed and it's more brutal now, less forgiving

    except if you are in a commando which has a TTK of like 10 minutes if half the team is shooting at it
     
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  5. Excalibaard

    Excalibaard 101 010 Staff Member

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    I think the overhaul is nice conceptually, but executed poorly because it came from the wrong mindset.

    From the mindset of giving SHS a slightly bigger role in the game and making people ride the heat scale a bit more up and down, it's a good patch.
    From the intended mindset of reducing TTK and laservom dominance by limiting alphas, it's a bad patch.

    In total effect, it has a neutral effect on the enjoyment of the game imho. Balance patches don't fix mechanical problems (nor new player experience, which is making it more difficult to introduce non-BattleTech-nerd friends to the game, or to retain new players).
     
  6. Tollas669

    Tollas669 Active Member

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    Well i only had a few matches today so can't say too much but my Supernova 1 with the double large pulses and 6 medium pulses cools back in the blink of an eye after 2 alphas from the overheat threshold somewhere around 90 or so heat. Takes about 1 or 2 seconds and you can alphastrike again.
     
  7. CarloArmato

    CarloArmato Professional Potato Carrier

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    My 2 cents on this patch

    DHS dissipation is so insane it will probably become the new meta
    : meta seems shifted from "fit the highest amount of weapons" to "fit the highest amount of DHS". Mechs with few arm actuators or with asymmetric actuators will become increasingly powerful because you have more space for upgrades and DHS

    Mechs with few big weapons need re-evaluation: due to lack of hardpoints and a lot of space to fit DHS they could be extremely cool and provide high sustained DPS over time.

    High alpha builds can now alpha strike more frequently, but luckily the damage nerf is enough to prevent enough insta-kills on fresh mechs: I actually had some instances with my deathstrike where I wasn't able to finish off a target and I had to fire another time. Still, the dire whale (2xcGR, 2xcERLL, 6xcERML) can still alpha strike without overheating, so on limiting clan alpha strikes it is half a failure.

    Clan DHS boat are now stronger than ever, e.g. Marauder IIC 2xLPL + 6xERML + cXL375 can permafire 6xcERML while moving in heat neutral maps. Because of this, despite quirks IS laser vomit builds become weaker because they can't dissipate heat as well as clan builds. Even my coolest black knight 3xLL + 6xERML with -10% heat gen quirk can't fire as much as clan builds.

    Builds with no external heatsinks feel hotter: those few niche builds with no external DHS (e.g.: bushwacker 2xUAC10) feel hotter. Even I've just found out they should be sensibly cooler (0.22 dissipation instead of previous 0.2 internal dissipation [?] ), additional DHS are so powerful it feels there is little point to use such builds. As I stated in the first point, the new race will be to boat DHS.

    Brawlers are now officially dead: despite artemis buff, due to laser vomit increased cooling there is even little space for brawlers because there is an higher chance of getting killed before brawl starts or, even worse, you will rarely find a laser vomit build overheat itself due to increased cooling. This one is my biggest complaint, because brawlers now feels completely and utterly pointless, unless it's an invasion defense and map favors brawler. Yep, this kind of niche. Lights can still be very nasty in the right hands, but anything slower than ~100 km/h is gonna have a very bad time.

    Ghost heat quirks are actually quite useless on those chassis because they are "fixed" on that particular weapon: you can't dual gauss + HPPC on a Nighstar, you can only use a ERPPC... Awesome 8Q is the only "bugged" assault which can triple HPPC or triple ERPPC without ghost heat instead of simply triple PPC, but even with bad hardpoints it feels OP AF: there is literally no reason to allow 45 pinpoint damage at ~600 meters when 2xAC20 at ~300 meters triggers ghost heat... It can also 3+2 ERPPC in polar highlands, so spam those ERPPC in faction play.
    Also, the fact HBK-IIC can only 2xcUAC20 and CAN'T 2xcAC20 is garbage.

    Reduced armor on Annihilator and Bushwacker was needed (even if I still love bushwacker), I'm pretty sure it was not necessary on Fafnir (it's easy to isolate hitboxes and focus a single component) and Sleipnir (it was a almost useless structure quirk, wtf)

    I still need to test and feel ECM and artemis behaviour: as far as I've read, it looks a good compromise to me.
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2018
  8. Excalibaard

    Excalibaard 101 010 Staff Member

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    I wish they reduce the dissipation values and cap values a bit again, though I do like the current more active play.

    Base heat: 30 > 40
    All heatsinks follow these simple rules (including the first 10):
    SHS: 0.5 cap 0.1 diss
    DHS: 0 cap 0.15 diss

    Dissipation of DHS returns to old level (excluding the internal DHS diss bonus), so DPS of previous patch is decreased. The relative dissipation is still the same between SHS and DHS, and the SHS still provide more cap than DHS. Maybe SHS cap could be changed to 0.25 or 0.33 if it proves to be 'too powerful'. These are easy values to calculate your cap and dissipation with.
    Inflated heat values for some weapons (PPC, lasers) due to poor general heat management rules can then be removed.
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2018
  9. Shock

    Shock Patron of the Underdog Staff Member

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    Basically, PGI set out to reduce the effectiveness of high alpha laser boats and increase the viability of SHS and seems to have done the opposite for both. Unfortunately, I can't even say I'm surprised.

    Overall, the community reaction seems to be positive but I'm pretty sure it's for the same reason that cold maps are popular. Deep down, nobody wants to have to deal with heat management,
     
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  10. CarloArmato

    CarloArmato Professional Potato Carrier

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    And it is one of my fears: a simple damage nerf would have enraged more than half of the community, so they proceeded to buff dissipation in order to let you vomit more lasers. "If you can shoot more, it should be better".

    But in the end I still don't like clan vomit lasers: I still prefer IS mechs and quirks.
     
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